North Island invasion of South Island

[Balrog]

I..
when you mean an ICE number - do you mean wife/partner etc?

That's right,
I saw a post about doing that on this site a while ago and thought it was a good idea.

[warewolf]

I don't think they need to wait until the tail end Charlie comes along.
You just need to make sure the person behind you knows where to go.
If they can't see the person behind them, then they wait until they are sure the next person knows where to go.

The problem is that this system less disciplined and in practice less effective than the cornerman system. The single biggest issue is that the last rider in a faster bunch of friends has to wait for the next slowest group to arrive... typically they get impatient/lonely and leave their post. Doesn't happen so much in adv riding but it still happens all too often. I know road/adv riders don't seem to like the cornerman system, usually 'cos they don't want to be separated from their immediate mates, but it works very well for trail/adv rides with larger numbers of disparate people.

With the cornerman system, you only have to recognise 2 bikes, lead & tail, which don't change. Position within the group is unimportant and overtaking never a problem. If they wish faster riders can move through the group, then be dropped at a corner, then move through the group again. Steady riders can just sit in the middle of the group, and never stop as long as they never become 2nd bike.

When you have gates that require closing, they become a 'corner' and there is no confusion about should-it-be-closed-shouldn't-it, because the cornerman would have either seen the lead rider open it, or be told when he caught up and got dropped on the 'corner' by the lead rider.

Even with maps & directions & most ppl knowing mostly where to go, the whole point of either system is to stop ppl falling through the cracks, for various reasons. So if a system is going to be used, it should be as reliable as we can make it.

[warewolf]

when you mean an ICE number - do you mean wife/partner etc?

Yes, google it, it is not a specific m/c thing but came from the London bombings(?) a few years ago. You can use ICE, ICE2, ICE3 for multiple people in order of preference.

[junkmanjoe]

im in vavor off the corrner man.
it worked ok on the KCR. as i sat at the back off the group and didnt have to stop all weekend....sweet.

im still happy to go at the back, and herd up the lost sheep.....

i know from the KCR there are 3 groups of riders.
faster ones want to be up front.if they end at the back they just pass ya to get back up front again.

the cruzzers in the middle in no hurry but still want to get there.

then the take it easy riders at the back.

but then ya can get speeders on the seal, but there not to fast on gravel,

just thinking with the key board.

JMJ

[BMWST?]

its got nothing to do with me i spose but i think i would apppreciate the corner man system.The problem with the "next one stops" system is the whole group gets more and more spread out as everyone has to stop and restart and the slower guys all end up together down the back .Whatever system is used EVERYBODY has to know how it works.
ICE= in case of emergency
I really really hope(if fact i know that) you will guys have an awesome time !

[Box'a'bits]

I agree with Joe & Warewolf. The cornerman system worked very well at the KCAR. Basically it means that the overall group keeps a reasonable speed - there isn't a need for constant regrouping, and no one gets left off the back of the group (& potentially lost). It also means that if the leader & tail end charlie have cell phone contact, there is no confusion if there is an accident or breakdown. Keen to see it on this ride.

Cheers

Steve

[bart]

I'm not a huge fan of the cornerman. From my experiences with it, it encourages people to overtake, as the faster riders always end up at the back. Some overtaking manouvres I've seen while adventure riding have been down right dangerous.

Not saying I'm an angel, and I probably take more risks than most, but I generally try to spend as little time as possible in the right hand lane, (growing up in the country, on narrow gravel roads, where every second vehicle was a stock truck, I learnt to always have a plan 'B', which usually involved the left hand ditch).

I'm easy for this ride though, as I don't know the area, so will be taking it quietly.

Rant over.

[Eddieb]

Hey Mark

How rough is this going to be? Just wondering whether I pack everything in a soft bag or whether I can use my hard luggage without rattling it to pieces.

[marks]

Hey Mark

How rough is this going to be? Just wondering whether I pack everything in a soft bag or whether I am use my hard luggage without rattling it to pieces.

soft bag

[BMWST?]

would this be suitable for a B.A.B on a big bike?? r100 gs or r11gs or similar

yup

Hey Mark

How rough is this going to be? Just wondering whether I pack everything in a soft bag or whether I can use my hard luggage without rattling it to pieces.

soft bag

something doesnt add up here

[marks]

something doesnt add up here

I lied.......

perhaps I should elaborate - we will hopefully doing the following in the following order:
Porika - moderate 4wd track with one nasty downhill bit which maybe those with roady tires or limited experience (or sore backs) should bypass
Breaburn - Matakitaki Rd - Maruia Saddle - West bank Rd - all a piece of piss
Big River - moderate 4wd - should be ok for everyone
Waitahu River - knarlier 4wd - which maybe those with roady tires or limited experience should bypass
The New Creek track - moderate 4wd - should be doable by all except maybe the last bit down to the river

I ripped my footpegs off last time on Big River and Waitahu River - they have a few bumpy bit that would reduce eddies old hard bags to dust

[Paladin]

I don't think they need to wait until the tail end Charlie comes along.
You just need to make sure the person behind you knows where to go.
If they can't see the person behind them, then they wait until they are sure the next person knows where to go.

Combine that with regular group catch ups and everything should be sweet.

Just my 10cents worth.

I'm not a huge fan of the cornerman. From my experiences with it, it encourages people to overtake, as the faster riders always end up at the back. Some overtaking manouvres I've seen while adventure riding have been down right dangerous.

Not saying I'm an angel, and I probably take more risks than most, but I generally try to spend as little time as possible in the right hand lane, (growing up in the country, on narrow gravel roads, where every second vehicle was a stock truck, I learnt to always have a plan 'B', which usually involved the left hand ditch).

I'm easy for this ride though, as I don't know the area, so will be taking it quietly.

Rant over.

I'm with Jim & Bart on this. I don't see the need for a full cornerman system either. Many, if not most of us will have a map. As Joe said the guys coming over from the NI have all ridden enough together to know who the fast/cruisey/steady guys are. This isn't a one day ride; we have the evening before hand for each day's ride to talk about the next day and where we could have major regroup points as Jim suggested, or do it at brekky on the day!!!

I think Joe is pretty much planning on being tail end charlie whatever, and I don't have any choice but to take things easy cos of my back, so we'll be cruisin along takin it all in bringin up the rear I'd guess!

Chill!! It'll all be fine!!! We're gonna have a great time riding, takin in the scenery and meetin our SI brethren! And the long range weather forecast on metvuw is startin to look pretty good for us too!!!

[Padmei]

I'm a fan of using the cornerman system. On the dustybutt we had a loose one that didn't work at all times. I personally like the thought that someone's waiting to make sure the group is together & taken the right way. No use having a sweep if someone has taken the wrong turn along the way. If the cornerman counts the group going along we know if someone is missing.

[junkmanjoe]

we had a tail end charlie on the KCR worked well.

so im keen on takeing the tail.
make sure no one is left behind or gets lost.

vote for corner man......1 for me

[bart]

Even though I'm not a fan, it does work with larger groups (10+).

Half a vote for me.