Buying from a dealer?

[Headbanger]

Way out of proportion.

The discussion has been about getting the best priced possible, If the dealer sells below cost then the dealer is at fault, Not the customer.

You can't force someone to sell at 1 cent less then they want to.

[McDuck]

The other benefet of buying from a dealer is i had a missunderstanding with my local over a new frount tyre.

I thought i mad eit clear i needed it today (ordered tusday) they thought i ment next friday (easter?)

Anyway i am about to go and get a better tyre (that they had in stock) insted of the tyre i ordered but they do not have in yet, saving me about 50 bucks and i get to take the bike up to the BOP tomorro.

[naphazoline]

But a professional is always going to cost more than a hobbyist DIY, and generally offer better service/value despite the higher outlay..

Well......i just hope they remember this,when they go under.

All the bitching and whining about "poor retailers",is not going to make people pay more for the same product.
No one told them they had to be retailers,it was their choice.

So if they're looking for sympathy,they better wake up.(or find another job they can handle.)

[Robert Taylor]

Well......i just hope they remember this,when they go under.

All the bitching and whining about "poor retailers",is not going to make people pay more for the same product.
No one told them they had to be retailers,it was their choice.

So if they're looking for sympathy,they better wake up.(or find another job they can handle.)

Ok, a previous post very perceptively mentioned the word sustainability.

If you yourself ( hypothetically ) wake up one day and find your job is gone because your employer went under then that may just be a reality check for you.
The cheapening of products because manufacturers like the Chinese are making things out of weetbix and tissue paper is ultimately on a one way road to nowhere. I think there are fewer and fewer people left who actually know what true quality is. The drive for cheaper and cheaper products has effectively lowered living standards and one day there just has to be a realignment. Certainly there needs to be a realignment in thinking rather than blindly following what is dished out as excuse for product.

[MarkH]

The cheapening of products because manufacturers like the Chinese are making things out of weetbix and tissue paper is ultimately on a one way road to nowhere. I think there are fewer and fewer people left who actually know what true quality is. The drive for cheaper and cheaper products has effectively lowered living standards and one day there just has to be a realignment. Certainly there needs to be a realignment in thinking rather than blindly following what is dished out as excuse for product.

I think I must be missing something here? Are people talking about buying Keeway because they don't want to pay a premium for Suzuki (replace with whatever brand, I think you know what I'm saying)? Until this post I THOUGHT that the discussion was about not wanting to pay more for the SAME product!

Personally I decide what I want to buy then I try to get the best deal on that product. Generally I have done well out of buying high quality products, even if I have scored a reasonable discount on my purchase. I like high quality, it is good to buy something that will last well.

[Robert Taylor]

I think I must be missing something here? Are people talking about buying Keeway because they don't want to pay a premium for Suzuki (replace with whatever brand, I think you know what I'm saying)? Until this post I THOUGHT that the discussion was about not wanting to pay more for the SAME product!

Personally I decide what I want to buy then I try to get the best deal on that product. Generally I have done well out of buying high quality products, even if I have scored a reasonable discount on my purchase. I like high quality, it is good to buy something that will last well.

It didnt come out as clearly from my side. What I was attempting to say is that there is often a correlation between people wanting cheaper and cheaper prices and manufacturers obliging by making their products cheaper. BUT it has clearly gone too far because there is so much stuff on the market now that is absolute rubbish. Like the highest proprtion of Chinese no name scooters for example. Sure you get a great price, initially. Then the pain starts.

[JacksColdSweat]

Limited margin is no longer the domain of motorcycle dealers.

When I sold my WRX STi a couple of years ago a dealer called me to look at it. He drove it and liked it - I wanted 18500 for it and he offered 18. I told him "you'll have it on the yard for 26!"

He promised me "It'll be 21000 - and I'd just about shake your hand on that" and he gave me 18500 for it

A week later I saw it advertised - 21000... that was after they cleaned the tar spots off it that I couldn't get off and valeted it

Even car sales aren't what they used to be - too many guppies crowding those fishtanks...

[portokiwi]

Dealers are ok, Most of them want a sale and will either knock down the price or chuck in some gear. Same old.... its your call.

[R1madness]

Bro,
Theres a mighty big difference between having a regular customer and a one off buyer.Sure,the regulars get the best deals but that's NOT what this thread was about.Comprende?

One off buyers should not EXPECT any discount..... That is for regular customers that keep my business going from week to week. Do you really think making stuff all to nothing on a bike just to keep you happy is going to help my business? I dont think so....

The funny thing is the people that expect discount are also the first to whine and complain... you sold me this bike 7 months ago and it has blown a indercator bulb you sold me a piece of shit and i want you to suck my cock while you pay me $100 and replace my bulb for free......
Therefor the discount demanders get the least service and least other std buyers extras (like a full tank of gas, free delivery, free extended warentee, long term discount on servicing, discount on accessories and apparel etc) just to save a few dollars at the start.

Its all about how you approach the dealer. If you are interested in the bike then the price should be close to your budget or you shouldn't even go look at it. Be honest with yourself and the dealer about your expectations.
Most dealers are pretty open to negotiate but the deal has to work in both directions or its a not worth doing.

[Robert Taylor]

One off buyers should not EXPECT any discount..... That is for regular customers that keep my business going from week to week. Do you really think making stuff all to nothing on a bike just to keep you happy is going to help my business? I dont think so....

The funny thing is the people that expect discount are also the first to whine and complain... you sold me this bike 7 months ago and it has blown a indercator bulb you sold me a piece of shit and i want you to suck my cock while you pay me $100 and replace my bulb for free......
Therefor the discount demanders get the least service and least other std buyers extras (like a full tank of gas, free delivery, free extended warentee, long term discount on servicing, discount on accessories and apparel etc) just to save a few dollars at the start.

Its all about how you approach the dealer. If you are interested in the bike then the price should be close to your budget or you shouldn't even go look at it. Be honest with yourself and the dealer about your expectations.
Most dealers are pretty open to negotiate but the deal has to work in both directions or its a not worth doing.

Its also interesting to note Ian that the dealers that have gone to the wall recently have been discounters. High turnover, high overheads, low margins.

[AD345]

Fascinating thread.

As far as the OP goes - I'd try hard to get 5 - 10% off the sticker price OR an agreement on servicing, accessory costs. When buying a vehicle I usually take one of 2 approaches:

1. I have a number I want to pay and either the dealer can meet it or there is no sale. Thats the money approach.

2. I have a vehicle I really want to own and I will haggle and work with my own finances and the dealers to do whatever I need to to get the vehicle. Thats the "wannit" approach.

The first I use with cars - the second with bikes (as a broad rule of thumb anyway)



As to the margins and sustainability of cheap pricing discussion.........

The industry I work in makes a national staple food. For a long time in the 80's and 90's there was a determined lowering of the average market price pushed by our competitors. The driving down of the Net Sales Value eventually pushed the company I worked for out of business. I ended up taking a reasonably senior role in the largest industry player and we have spent the last couple of years clawing back that NSV lost over the previous 10. Part of that has involved simply buying up other players to get them out of the market. Great for the owners - they retired. Great for their workers - they were getting paid absolute shit amounts. I think we raised the average hourly rate by 15% or more in 12 months.

The consumers - not happy. Blinded by greed and encouraged by shortsighted profit takers they never knew that the market was unsustainable and we, as a country, came within a gnats testicle hair of having to import a basic foodstuff until foreign money became available to rebuild a shattered industry.

It didn't happen - but jeez it was close.

Expect your grocery bill to rise for a few years to come yet boys and girls. I know no-one likes it but we're paying the piper for 2 decades of greed.

Greed is NOT good

Chasing price to the exclusion of all else is greedy.




One day I oughta write a book

[warewolf]

Well......i just hope they remember this,when they go under.

All the bitching and whining about "poor retailers",is not going to make people pay more for the same product.
No one told them they had to be retailers,it was their choice.

So if they're looking for sympathy,they better wake up.(or find another job they can handle.)

They're not asking for sympathy, any more than the bleating customer is. All the bitching about prices just comes across as, "I can't afford it, so the dealer has to give it to me at his expense, 'cos I'm doing it tough/am a tight-arse."

I was just trying to point out that the common misconception of people in motorcycle retail being rich money-grabbing ogres is wrong. Largely, they are motorcycle enthusiasts - just like you and me - and trying to make a living. They are doing it just as tough as the customer. They are living, working and playing in the same economic environment. I just can't get my head around this implied concept that when the customer is under fiscal pressure, the dealer is somehow magically exempt.


Selling stuff cheap (or as RT says, selling cheap stuff) is no guarantee that they won't go under. Indeed, it appears they are the ones who have been first up against the wall.

[mctshirt]

Simple economics is about supply and demand and the fact something is only worth what someone else will pay for it. That applies to motorcycle vendors no more and no less than anyone else.

A good example is the real estate market - no matter what you think your house is worth the price will ultimately be determined by the buyer. You get to decide if there is a sale or not depending how much you want to sell but the buyer sets the price depending on how much they wish to spend to own your particular piece of paradise. If they decide your place is the only one that fits their criteria then supply is low and demand is high (one house and one buyer) and this will increase price. If your place is much like the other ten they have looked at then supply is high and demand is low (10 houses and one buyer) which means the buyer will go with the one they consider the best value for money - most likely the cheapest if all the houses are pretty much the same according to their criteria. If the buyer feels the asking price is too much they will either try to strike a deal (offer less) or keep looking.

The market sets the price based on how much the buyer wants it and how much the seller wants to sell - price is negotiable.

In the case of the motorcycle the selling price is dependant on how much you want it it and how much the bike shop wants to sell it at the price you offer. How much you offer is based on how much you want it (is it the bike you've always wanted within your budget that will suit your riding habits). How much the vendor sells it for is going to depend on demand for the bike (is it a popular bike in good condition and easy to sell or a dog of a trade-in with a face only a mother could love?) and profit margin (can they sell it without losing money factoring in the deal they did to get in their showroom?)

That is why the chinese stuff will get harder to sell because after the initial euphoria of low low prices we are all learning from bitter experience that it requires constant repair meaning demand will reduce because it's crap no matter how high the supply.

Put a dollar value on how much you want the motorcycle and that's your price

[naphazoline]

I think this thread has exposed some of the BULLSHIT that salespeople are prone to talking.One of the very things that turn some people off them.

Yes,you guys have SOME valid points,and SOME i don't disagree with,but SOME of you are taking offense to some peoples views,and these are your potenial customers.

What ever happened to "the customers always come first." ?
An attitude that can win regular bussiness.
I think SOME of the attitudes displayed in this thread are as far removed from this as it can get.
Seems SOME bussinesses are only concerned with selfishness.

I understand that SOME customers expect FAR too much,and their demands can be simply over the top,but just listen to yourselves.You can't tell me you're not over doing your bit.
Talking about your customers,like SOME of you have in here,it seems some bussinesses are destined too go down the tube.

I leaving this for SOMEone else too drag on.

[DMNTD:Me]

I started working in bike sales just over a year ago and have my eyes opened right up as to what it's like on "the other side" of the deal.
I'd describe myself as an astute buyer...always trying to push the deal a little further than I know it probably would be possible...after 'the' deal as such.
As far as I was concerned if the dealer/seller didn't want to accept my terms then it was their right, after all there are a LOT of expenses involved in running a business and now that I'm in the industry I've found out just how much is involved running a motorcycle dealership
Some people need to understand when selling a secondhand bike a dealership MUST have enough margin to cover anything that may go wrong within the Consumer Guarantee's Act period. We've lost money on bike when we haven't allowed enough margin on several bikes...just trying to give the customer a deal. What would happen if we kept doing this? No more bike shop...no more job...therefore no more bike for this honky!

At work I expect people to try it on...in fact I'm disappointed if they don't! It's simply the nature of the game innit? What I've taken from being the purchaser to now the sales manager is that people feel better when some sort of a discount is given...they feel 'looked after'. Human nature again.
However looking after someone is far more than just a cash discount. There's sooooooo much more to sales than immediate financial savings/gains(depends on which side your on).
After sales support or simply sharing an opinion IMO is far more important and if one is to ask my customers...they agree!