Best engine configuration?

[crash harry]

IL6. As in the CBX1000. Nothing sounds more beautiful than that.

Or a 2-stroke twin-crank rotary-valve square 4 (RG500 FTW!)

[dipshit]

IL6. As in the CBX1000. Nothing sounds more beautiful than that.

Just because it sounds nice..???

How about all that weight that is spread east west..??

That's another advantage of a V-twin. Engine weight is narrow and inherently helps bike design for better left right transitions.

[James Deuce]

Just because it sounds nice..???

How about all that weight that is spread east west..??

That's another advantage of a V-twin. Engine weight is narrow and inherently helps bike design for better left right transitions.

Yeah, but it's long which affects layout, wheelbase and ergonomics. Want a comfortable longitudinal 90 degree V-Twin? Welcome to a rearward weight bias. Want a sporty L-Twin? I hope you're built like a 60kg pole vaulting Gorilla, because that's the only shape with the required athleticism to mount the tall seat AND be completely comfortable.

There's compromise in everything.

There are no bad bikes, just inflexible minds and broken bodies.

[dipshit]

There's compromise in everything.

Of course everything is full of trade-offs with one thing or another. Being good in one area can mean being bad in another area. This is why designers talk about inherent design weaknesses or strengths.

Good left right transitions is a biggie for motorcycles. Quite often the limiting factor for a rider through a chicane or a quick secession of corners is how quickly they can pick up and drop-down a bike from right to left. Not cornering clearance or traction, but how quickly they can change from one direction to another.

[Ocean1]

As I have understood it there is a certain volumetric range within which each cylinder works best (resonances and shit) and so the number of cylinders depends, ultimately, upon what torque-to-power characteristic you desire versus the total displacement of the engine.

There's a whole shitload of scale related variables where resonance and shit can/should be optomised. The Chevy 327 was developed in response to research indicating ideal cylinder volume for gas flow efficiency was around 670cc per pot. Different bore/stroke ratios and porting/fuelling arangements change that, by how much is open to debate. Better resourced debates than this one.

Yeah, but it's long which affects layout, wheelbase and ergonomics. Want a comfortable longitudinal 90 degree V-Twin? Welcome to a rearward weight bias. Want a sporty L-Twin? I hope you're built like a 60kg pole vaulting Gorilla, because that's the only shape with the required athleticism to mount the tall seat AND be completely comfortable.

There's compromise in everything.

There are no bad bikes, just inflexible minds and broken bodies.

You never did have a play on my 12R, did you dude?





Argumentitive shortarse bastard.

[Fatjim]

Yeah, but it's long which affects layout, wheelbase and ergonomics. Want a comfortable longitudinal 90 degree V-Twin? Welcome to a rearward weight bias. Want a sporty L-Twin? I hope you're built like a 60kg pole vaulting Gorilla, because that's the only shape with the required athleticism to mount the tall seat AND be completely comfortable.

There's compromise in everything.

There are no bad bikes, just inflexible minds and broken bodies.

Actually the Aprilia areboth roomy and handle reasonably well. Although with me on them they certainly are rearward biased.

[Fatjim]

This is were I think the competition restrictions on engine sizes have had a negative impact. Many engine configs can't "be all you can be" because they have been restricted. For example, the 1litre restriction in SB. Until last year the V2 was badly disadvantaged, and guess what. All the Jappers went to 4's. Great bikes the firestorm and tls (we won't mention the SV) are dead and buried because there's less incentive to develop them. The Jappers, would truely have made some awesome street bikes if they didn't have superbike classes to worry about.

If WSBK was an open class in terms of displacement I think we'd see better street bikes, not JUST the push for high siding jappers that we've had for the last 8 years.

[pritch]

For example, the 1litre restriction in SB.

That restriction seems somewhat flexible, allowing as it does the 1198 Ducati.

Then there is the 675 Triumph in the 600cc Supersports class.

The more the merrier?

[James Deuce]

There's a whole shitload of scale related variables where resonance and shit can/should be optomised. The Chevy 327 was developed in response to research indicating ideal cylinder volume for gas flow efficiency was around 670cc per pot. Different bore/stroke ratios and porting/fuelling arangements change that, by how much is open to debate. Better resourced debates than this one.



You never did have a play on my 12R, did you dude?





Argumentitive shortarse bastard.

No, but I have played with a variety of 9 and 12 S models. 45 degree V-Twin FTW!

[James Deuce]

Actually the Aprilia areboth roomy and handle reasonably well. Although with me on them they certainly are rearward biased.

60 Degree isn't it?

[James Deuce]

This is were I think the competition restrictions on engine sizes have had a negative impact. Many engine configs can't "be all you can be" because they have been restricted. For example, the 1litre restriction in SB. Until last year the V2 was badly disadvantaged, and guess what. All the Jappers went to 4's. Great bikes the firestorm and tls (we won't mention the SV) are dead and buried because there's less incentive to develop them. The Jappers, would truely have made some awesome street bikes if they didn't have superbike classes to worry about.

If WSBK was an open class in terms of displacement I think we'd see better street bikes, not JUST the push for high siding jappers that we've had for the last 8 years.

Dead right. We need to take the focus off the capacity of a petrol fired engine and replace it with a focus on limiting how many Mega Joules a bike can consume during a race. That would open things up significantly on both the motive power and energy source. Say 6-700 MJ for the top class, 400 for tier 2 and and 200 for the tiddlers.

You'd get electric bikes, fuel cell, hydrogen, diesel, bioethanol, and of course petrol. Makes racing look like it's trying to help out on the CO2 emissions front as well.

Can you imagine the SMART entry pissing off into the distance for the first half a dozen laps and then having to turn the wick down for the rest of the race to conserve batteries, vs a 2 litre petrol V5 Honda with a max rev limit of 1500rpm? Vw with a turbo diesel triple of 1.3 litres, and the Apple and Pear growers board with a bio-ethanol powered 800cc V4?

[Sully60]

No, but I have played with a variety of 9 and 12 S models. 45 degree V-Twin FTW!

"Although JD enjoyed the company of twins the thought of a 'rocking couple' was just one step too far".

[dipshit]

I made a subsequent post about that. You may want to read it.

But you were saying that you can control when it spins up and the amount of spinning with throttle control.

What if it didn't spin up at all and your throttle now controlled how much you accelerated out of a corner rather than using the throttle to control wheel spin.

Like we all know when riding a reasonably powerful il4 around on wet city streets, that if you wind on too much throttle you can play spinning fishtails down the street.

Try that on a V-twin and you will more than likely end up accelerating very fast down the street instead of spinning up.

Yes..?

[Beeza]

One-lungers. Singles.

Best sound, good low and midrange torque. Power you can actually use, and not just read about or watch on TV and brag about in the pub.

[James Deuce]

But you were saying that you can control when it spins up and the amount of spinning with throttle control.

What if it didn't spin up at all and your throttle now controlled how much you accelerated out of a corner rather than using the throttle to control wheel spin.

Like we all know when riding a reasonably powerful il4 around on wet city streets, that if you wind on too much throttle you can play spinning fishtails down the street.

Try that on a V-twin and you will more than likely end up accelerating very fast down the street instead of spinning up.

Yes..?

You're thinking waaay too hard. You make throttle control sound random and like grip is out of the scope of the understanding of the rider.