Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: How to get your knee down

  1. #1
    Join Date
    21st December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    Manx TT by Sega
    Location
    Welly
    Posts
    2,718

    Post How to get your knee down

    How to Sit on a Sportbike by Lance Keigwin



    "Please, tell me how to get my knee down." I’ve heard it a hundred times. As a veteran instructor with STAR Motorcycle School, and a track day organizer who’s put on many dozens of track events and novice schools over the last several years, I talk with a lot of riders. Questions from riders are pretty varied. But the most common questions are certainly about riding position, weight shifting, and how to scrape knee pucks.


    Let’s start by asking what’s wrong with just sitting on the bike, centered across the seat and tank? Well, the answer depends on how fast you intend to corner. The fundamental notion of "hanging off" is that it allows you to keep the bike more upright, and that in turn provides a better tire contact patch. A better contact patch means better grip through corners and under acceleration. So it follows that with two riders traveling the same speed through the same corner on the same line, the rider who is centered on the bike has to lean the bike farther than the one hanging his weight off the bike. And the "centered" rider will have more difficulty managing the drive out of the corner because of his more severe lean angle and less desirable contact patch.

    Okay, let’s say you’re convinced that using your weight when cornering is wise. Where do you begin? Let’s break it down:


    Swivel around the tank

    Contrary to what a lot of beginners think, the movement of the lower body (legs and buttocks) is not a shift off the seat and away from the bike but rather a rotation around the tank. It’s a swivel. (This does not necessarily get your knee much closer to the ground -- let’s save that for later). Instead, focus on rotating hips and legs so that the forward leg corresponds to the turn direction. I.e., when setting up for a left corner, the left leg and knee are forward on the tank; the right inner thigh is pressed firmly against the right rear of the tank.





    Lead with the shoulder

    "Point the way" with the left shoulder for a left turn. Right shoulder for a right turn. Remember the rotation!




    Head and chest position

    Where’s most of your body weight? From the waist up, right? So use that body weight to your advantage. Your head and chest should not be centered over the tank. Position your head over your wrist. If you had mirrors, you would be trying to kiss the mirror!

    Keep elbows down and tucked in

    This is not flat track. Your elbows should be tucked in and kept low, with forearms parallel to the ground. This will help you stay relaxed on the bike -- it is harder to death-grip the handlebars and be stiff in the arms and shoulders. It will promote weight forward and chest down. And it positions your arms for the easiest and most effective steering input (nearly perpendicular to the angle of the forks). In a left corner you may find that your left elbow touches the tank or upper fairing, and your right elbow rests on the tank corner or even your thigh near the knee.


    Look through the corner

    Sure, everyone knows about target fixation and its danger. But it’s only dangerous if you’re looking where you don’t want to go! Find reference points to focus on to help you drive through the corner, and ones to aim for on the exits. Keep your eyes up, looking down the track and through the corners. This will also help you build confidence in speed, as everything slows down when you look farther out.




    Be smooth and use anchor points

    The bike is happiest without you on it. You force it to do unnatural things and fight its impulse for self-correction. One of toughest things for a bike to manage is jerky movement, whether it’s your braking and downshifting or your body weight moving or bouncing around. So, as you smoothly reposition your weight on the bike for an upcoming corner, use anchor points to "become one with the bike". That way suspension is handling one weight, not the bike doing one thing and you doing another. Use your "outside" heel (right heel in our example) on the foot peg heel guard, and press your outside thigh against tank. These anchor points are also useful to help turn the bike with your strong leg muscles. Stabilize your upper weight over the tank. Do NOT strangle the clip-ons. As you practice these techniques with the bike on a bike stand, see if you can let go of the handlebars while in your cornering position. If you cannot, then you’re using the clip-ons for support and that’s bad. Instead, use your stomach, back and leg muscles to support your weight. Have someone press on your back so you can feel the muscles you need to use to resist.




    Stick that knee out

    So, how about that knee? Well the truth is, if you want to use your knee as a gauge to measure lean angle, you have to stick it out. I mean, STICK IT OUT! Try this: stand up and imagine you’re facing 12 o’clock. Lift your left heel high, leaving your toes on the ground. Pivot your left leg on the ball of your foot so that your knee is pointing to 9 o’clock. That’s what you want. Can’t do it, or can’t do it in your leathers? Then you’re going to have to limber up or fix those leathers. In time, as your speed and lean angle increase, you will touch your knee down with much less effort. But the best way to get started is to exaggerate your motions. It is almost always the case that riders feel they’re leaning or hanging off far more than they really are. When they see pictures of themselves they often say, "Oh he caught me when I wasn’t practicing."



    There are obviously more techniques to use to help you steer, lean, and apply muscles and weight to improve cornering speed and skill (weighting foot pegs, counter-steering, throttle and brake control, among them). But practice the basics first and get them right. Remember, practice doesn’t make perfect, it makes permanent. Learn to do it right early!




    Lance Keigwin owns and operates Keigwins@theTrack (
    target=_blank>http://keigwin.com/) a company dedicated to safe and fun track days. Lance is also a veteran instructor with Jason Pridmores STAR Motorcycle School and a partner at Hare Racing, a performance motorcycle shop in Sunnyvale, Ca.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    12th May 2003 - 11:41
    Bike
    98 HondaRS125
    Location
    Kaukapakapa
    Posts
    412
    No Shit!
    Luv it!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    6th May 2003 - 12:00
    Bike
    2020 Honda Rebel 500
    Location
    Northland
    Posts
    960
    Ooh, I'll read this later
    /end communication

  4. #4
    Join Date
    2nd September 2003 - 14:37
    Bike
    1989 Kawasaki ZXR250
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    74
    Makes me realise how valuable a bit of advanced rider training would be. Being better than one needs to be on a dialy basis has got to be good for safety.

    Also, the chicks dig it....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    17th June 2003 - 17:34
    Bike
    HMX 5000
    Location
    Browns Bay, Orc-land
    Posts
    186

    Staring down a corner

    very informative stuff, and very useful for someone like myself who is learning with every ride.

    actually, before even reading this, on Saturday I worked out that the tank guard is there for more than just proctecting the tank from scratches!
    By getting my upper body over the tank, with bum slid to back of the seat, I found cornering soo much easier and relaxing.
    Even managed to scrape my left foot a couple of times (first one gave me a fright).
    Now I can finally make use of some of that rubber on the outside of my tyres!
    Ducati del Mondo Superbike Campione!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    30th December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    2011 Suziki V strom 650
    Location
    Palmerston North
    Posts
    1,496
    Blog Entries
    1
    Duke, scraping your toes?? Used to do that on the ninja; cos I had  throttle mostly shut off when tipping through the corner. If you are accelerating (gently) through the corner, then it sharpens the steering geometry of the bike, increases ground clearance, and reduces the chance of transmission lash making the back tyre breake free when you do decide to tap the power on.  I suppose it could also be your foot position on the pegs.

    Having said that the SV scrapes pegs, brake, or clutch lever when it's right over...knee would be on the floor if I chose, but I've only had these pucks for 3 years

    TTFN
    Legalise anarchy

  7. #7
    This guy will never get it right - forgot to swivel his hips eh?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	88_rochester.jpg 
Views:	179 
Size:	30.3 KB 
ID:	371  
    In and out of jobs, running free
    Waging war with society

  8. #8
    Join Date
    21st December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    Manx TT by Sega
    Location
    Welly
    Posts
    2,718
    PMPL

  9. #9
    Join Date
    21st October 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    CharlesidealOB
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,950
    Blog Entries
    10
    Forget about getting your knee down, try getting your elbow down.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    25th October 2002 - 12:00
    Bike
    Old Blue, Little blue
    Location
    31.29.57.11, 116.22.22.22
    Posts
    4,861
    I normally get my knee down this way........
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	damit... it worked yesterday.jpg 
Views:	163 
Size:	30.1 KB 
ID:	374  
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  11. #11
    Join Date
    21st December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    Manx TT by Sega
    Location
    Welly
    Posts
    2,718
    That's called the 'Si Technique' 

  12. #12
    Join Date
    30th December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    2011 Suziki V strom 650
    Location
    Palmerston North
    Posts
    1,496
    Blog Entries
    1
    Tsk tsk, the Si technique involves coming off the lowside....that one is the advanced Si technique, which I haven't mastered yet. As you can see this technique is best performed on a track

    TTFN
    Legalise anarchy

  13. #13
    Join Date
    21st December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    Manx TT by Sega
    Location
    Welly
    Posts
    2,718
    Actually if you look closely - it looks like both the Novice and Advanced Si Techniques were performed in unison on that hairpin....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    5th November 2002 - 11:20
    Bike
    GSXR750 K4
    Location
    South Auckland
    Posts
    2,135
    'pivoting' is an interesting concept. I've done a bit of reading on cornerign by notable individiuals and never heard of pivoting before. It does kinda feel right though. I've Tried it the last two days after reading this article but requires the inside knee to be stuck out as the ZX-6r fairings get in the way when it juts forward.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    21st December 2002 - 11:00
    Bike
    Manx TT by Sega
    Location
    Welly
    Posts
    2,718
    Fucked if I can do it on the right hand side - the left - no worries - the right, just feels awkward.......hmmmmm

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •