School speed limits. What's your point of view?

[PirateJafa]

No, think about it. The accident happened, it was reality. Such accidents happen regularly and most "accidents" could have been prevented if the person(s) concerned were doing the "right thing".

Exactly. They happen regularly

The reality is that "retards" are not and never will be taken off the road.

I dunno, the cops seem to do, on the whole, a pretty good job. They're just let down by limp-wristed judges.

Agreed, but trucks and buses, even mini-buses with a single flashing light on the roof are surprisingly visible and do catch a motorist's attention. Any such simple measures that are inexpensive and effective would have to be a "good thing" IMHO.

Container straddle-carriers at the wharves are 20 metres high and have orange flashing lights on them. Aaaand yet once every year or two someone still gets run over.

The threshold needs to be enforced to fix below-average driving, not lowered.

Even smart Kids are stupid sometimes.

Same goes for adults! :slap:

[Beemer]

Nope....speed limit applies both directions.

And that is where I have a problem with this legal requirement to slow to 20kph when passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off children (and how the bloody hell can you tell if it is, or if the driver has just stopped to have a rest?) ON THE OPEN ROAD.

I don't have a problem slowing to 20kph when passing a school or a school bus in a 50kph zone, but if drivers in BOTH directions suddenly slowed to 20kph on a 100kph stretch of road then I can see the potential for pile-ups. What should I be doing on SH1 just north of the Waitarere Beach turn-off when passing Poroutawhao School? It's in a 100kph zone on SH1 - and school buses stop there to collect and drop off kids too. The school is on a straight stretch of road but you can't really tell it's a school until you get close to it. Are all motorists going in both directions required to slow to 20kph when passing the school? (I assume this only applies during school hours - but what about if there was a school function at night or on weekends?)

I personally feel that children - of all ages, as teenagers have also been killed crossing the road in these circumstances - should be taught to stop and wait until the bus has left before they cross, to both slow them down and increase their visibility. I live on a 100kph road and the road it joins is also 100kph and I have seen a teenager encourage his younger brother and sister to run across the road to wait for the bus (so there is NO requirement for me to slow down) when I am only about 50m away from them.

What happens in instances where a child runs across the road to WAIT for the school bus when the bus is not there yet? Do motorists travelling in both directions have a responsibility to slow to 20kph in all areas where children are likely to be picked up by a school bus? Many of these 'stops' are in private driveways, at intersections or just on the side of the road. Should all responsibility for crossing safely in 100kph areas be removed from these children as soon as a bus is factored into the equation? I don't think so, I think it's about time the onus was put on the parents and the children themselves. Yes, young children are not very roadwise but the parents should be there waiting for the bus - or the children should be in the care of older children - the responsibility for these children crossing the road safely should not be passed to the motorists.

[FJRider]

All idiot-proof laws gets you, is bigger idiots...

I have heard in court one idiot say ... there were no signs to say I couldn't ...

[FJRider]

And that is where I have a problem with this legal requirement to slow to 20kph when passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off children (and how the bloody hell can you tell if it is, or if the driver has just stopped to have a rest?) ON THE OPEN ROAD.

I don't have a problem slowing to 20kph when passing a school or a school bus in a 50kph zone, but if drivers in BOTH directions suddenly slowed to 20kph on a 100kph stretch of road then I can see the potential for pile-ups. What should I be doing on SH1 just north of the Waitarere Beach turn-off when passing Poroutawhao School? It's in a 100kph zone on SH1 - and school buses stop there to collect and drop off kids too. The school is on a straight stretch of road but you can't really tell it's a school until you get close to it. Are all motorists going in both directions required to slow to 20kph when passing the school? (I assume this only applies during school hours - but what about if there was a school function at night or on weekends?)

If the driver has dropped off all his passengers, he/she is required by law to cover/remove the school bus signs, and the 20 km/hr law no longer applies.

The 20 km/hr law is for when passing a bus, with School bus signs displayed, that has stopped, for the picking up or dropping off, of passengers (school children) This may happen outside normal hours expected.... ie. Evening school functions.

[6ft5]

and what is the responsibility of those parents, do they care, where are they ???

[oldrider]

School buses have two-foot wide fluro-yellow signs on them with the large word "SCHOOL" printed on.

If you cannot see this, please go and hand your license into the nearest police station until you've been to your local optometrist

If you're unable to slow down in time, then clearly you are already going too fast for the conditions, and deserve what you get for being a fucking tool.

The "school" signs that you mention are the ones that I meant could be possibly be made to "flash" when the bus is "stationary" and the doors are "open"!

I don't have any problem seeing the signs currently but a bus has to be stationary and have the doors open to allow children running in or out of the bus.

This would appear to be the time when most of these "accidents" occur and it could signal even greater care than normal is required.

There obviously is a problem and the thread poster asked for our thoughts, these are mine!

I don't disagree with your comments regarding speed but the flavour of your post does provoke me to ponder:

Does it take a lot of courage and practice to be a smartmouth behind a keyboard or does it just come naturally?

[Edbear]

... I don't think so, I think it's about time the onus was put on the parents and the children themselves. Yes, young children are not very roadwise but the parents should be there waiting for the bus - or the children should be in the care of older children - the responsibility for these children crossing the road safely should not be passed to the motorists.

I agree but not that responsibility not be with the motorists. All road users should be aware of potential hazards especially on rural roads. As bikers, we are all aware of the dangers of speeding on rural roads not knowing whether the next corner will obscure a tractor of a farm vehicle turning. In this case, we don't know if the car driver was exercising caution due to the presence of the school bus. The parents do need to take responsibility for their children's safety. In the case in question we don't know the family or even the incident circumstances and tragedy can happen for many reasons, not necessarily parental neglect.

The death I referred to earlier that also occured in that area involved an 8 year old boy who was accompanied by his older sister. He still managed to get hit by a truck right in front of her.

Sometimes parents just can't be there all the time but I guess we may find out more in due course about this incident.

[Beemer]

I agree but not that responsibility not be with the motorists. All road users should be aware of potential hazards especially on rural roads. As bikers, we are all aware of the dangers of speeding on rural roads not knowing whether the next corner will obscure a tractor of a farm vehicle turning...

I agree, all of us who ride or drive the roads need to be alert and ready to react should a hazard suddenly appear in front of us. But the point I was trying to make is the fact pedestrians should NOT be on the road in 100kph zones, no matter what their age. Yes, I realise they have to cross the road if they live on the other side, but a pedestrian suddenly running across the road in front of you in a 100kph zone when the road all around you is clear is not a hazard that happens every time you drive somewhere. I've seen these kids run out of their driveways and straight across the road (teenagers are some of the worst) and if you take your view to the extreme, we should all drive as though a pedestrian could suddenly run out like this in any place and at any time of the day.

Some responsibility does lie with the driver to avoid hazards on the road, but the parents and children also need to take some responsibility for their actions too. The children need to learn how to cross the road safely and if they are too young to do so, they should NOT be allowed to cross alone. You can't leave a child under the age of 14 alone in your home or your car, so if a young child is being dropped off outside their gate on the wrong side of the road in a 100kph area, then perhaps the bus driver - or a parent or other person who is on a roster to take care of young children leaving the bus - should be crossing with that child.

I hate hearing of incidents where a child has been killed or injured when crossing the road, but it seems to me to be if the bus is anywhere near the child, any accidents are automatically the fault of any driver passing. What if the bus had taken off and was 200m or so down the road when a car came around the corner just as a child ran across the road in front of him. If there is no bus stopped there, there is no requirement for him to be travelling at 20kph. The child may still be killed, but would he have a defence against hitting him? And what if it was an adult, running across the road to get the mail and not taking care?

I would like to ask all of you to answer this honestly - have YOU ever slowed to 20kph on the open road with a stream of traffic behind you when you saw a school bus on the side of the road - either side? I just think that it is dangerous because you often can't see the bus that clearly from a long distance so if you suddenly braked from 100kph to 20kph with other vehicles (especially trucks) behind you, what would happen? Would they all think "good on her, there's a school bus" or "fucking stupid cow, what the fuck does she think she's doing braking to a crawl on the open road?" I don't know if the police ever enforce this but I'd rather be ticketed for not slowing than have a milk tanker or a logging truck turn me into a hood ornament.

[Edbear]

I agree, all of us who ride or drive the roads need to be alert and ready to react ...(Snipity Snip)...a crawl on the open road?" I don't know if the police ever enforce this but I'd rather be ticketed for not slowing than have a milk tanker or a logging truck turn me into a hood ornament.

In zat case I does agree!

[vifferman]

Perhaps an TV campaign should be highlighting that both traffic flows need to slow to 20km/h.

ROFL.
You mean, like an actual non-propaganda TV advertising campaign? Instead of "Speed kills" and other triteshite?
The Goobermunt living up to the "Education" part of their "3 E's" campaign to reduce the road toll to an arbitrary 300?

[Tui Moment]

[PirateJafa]

The "school" signs that you mention are the ones that I meant could be possibly be made to "flash" when the bus is "stationary" and the doors are "open"!

I don't have any problem seeing the signs currently but a bus has to be stationary and have the doors open to allow children running in or out of the bus.

This would appear to be the time when most of these "accidents" occur and it could signal even greater care than normal is required.

There obviously is a problem and the thread poster asked for our thoughts, these are mine!

I don't disagree with your comments regarding speed but the flavour of your post does provoke me to ponder:

Does it take a lot of courage and practice to be a smartmouth behind a keyboard or does it just come naturally?

Years in our country's tertiary institutions do wonders for breaking one's faith in the world, mate.

Now, I'm sure that making the signs "flashy" will make people pay more attention, for all of maybe two months. Just like when they first started putting the current "SCHOOL" signs on the buses.

However, in a few months they will have grown acclimatised to these, and they'll just fade into the background clutter again. If they don't notice a two-foot wide fluro yellow sign, they'll be able to "blank" out just about anything barring the ol' red'n blue lights.

The "flavour" of my post is because unfortunately I don't have much time nor compassion for incompetence, especially in a situation where they are in control of sometimes more than two tonnes of quickly moving metal.

[AD345]

I agree, all of us who ride or drive the roads need to be alert and ready to react should a hazard suddenly appear in front of us. But the point I was trying to make is the fact pedestrians should NOT be on the road in 100kph zones, no matter what their age. Yes, I realise they have to cross the road if they live on the other side, but a pedestrian suddenly running across the road in front of you in a 100kph zone when the road all around you is clear is not a hazard that happens every time you drive somewhere. I've seen these kids run out of their driveways and straight across the road (teenagers are some of the worst) and if you take your view to the extreme, we should all drive as though a pedestrian could suddenly run out like this in any place and at any time of the day.

As much as possible - yes we should. If travelling along a rural road at 100k or higher and you are NOT scanning driveways and the like for possible problems you are running a large risk of grief

Some responsibility does lie with the driver to avoid hazards on the road, but the parents and children also need to take some responsibility for their actions too. The children need to learn how to cross the road safely and if they are too young to do so, they should NOT be allowed to cross alone. You can't leave a child under the age of 14 alone in your home or your car, so if a young child is being dropped off outside their gate on the wrong side of the road in a 100kph area, then perhaps the bus driver - or a parent or other person who is on a roster to take care of young children leaving the bus - should be crossing with that child.

Agreed .
However - it is not solely parents who should be taking responsibility for children. We ALL should.

I hate hearing of incidents where a child has been killed or injured when crossing the road, but it seems to me to be if the bus is anywhere near the child, any accidents are automatically the fault of any driver passing. What if the bus had taken off and was 200m or so down the road when a car came around the corner just as a child ran across the road in front of him. If there is no bus stopped there, there is no requirement for him to be travelling at 20kph. The child may still be killed, but would he have a defence against hitting him? And what if it was an adult, running across the road to get the mail and not taking care?

The biggest time of risk, and hence the reason for the laws, is when the child is obscured by the bus. When the bus is not there then the child can be much more easily seen and, likewise, can see much more easily.

I would like to ask all of you to answer this honestly - have YOU ever slowed to 20kph on the open road with a stream of traffic behind you when you saw a school bus on the side of the road - either side? I just think that it is dangerous because you often can't see the bus that clearly from a long distance so if you suddenly braked from 100kph to 20kph with other vehicles (especially trucks) behind you, what would happen? Would they all think "good on her, there's a school bus" or "fucking stupid cow, what the fuck does she think she's doing braking to a crawl on the open road?" I don't know if the police ever enforce this but I'd rather be ticketed for not slowing than have a milk tanker or a logging truck turn me into a hood ornament.

Care less about what people think of your driving and more about your responsibility to other members of society. There are numerous scenarios where, for your OWN survival, you may need to suddenly decelerate from 100k to 20k. If you are in a position where you couldn't do so and survive - then you're in a bad position and need to get out of it.

I empathise with a lot of what you are saying - I used to say exactly the same things myself. After spending some time in Maine (US) where vehicles in both directions have to come to a complete stop for school buses letting off or picking up kids I have changed my view. It drove me up the wall initially but there was NO sympathy from other residents and I eventually came to accept it and then be a big fan of it. They have just as many rural roads as us with equally large trucks thundering along them - everyone stops.

[pzkpfw]

Perhaps an TV campaign should be highlighting that both traffic flows need to slow to 20km/h.

Like when they started publicising the indicate-left when you exit a roundabout rule; and now you get all these people indicating right.

I think we'd end up with people thinking they can accelerate to 120 to pass a bus, as long as they do it on the left and have their hazards on.



Adults are dumb.

Kids are like adults, but have smaller brains.

[Ixion]

..

Agreed .
However - it is not solely parents who should be taking responsibility for children. We ALL should.

Why ?

[AD345]

Why ?

A better question would be 'why not?"

However, We should all take some responsibility for those more vulnerable members of society, the young, the elderly, the disabled and so on.

It's what it means to be a member of a civilised society... a community. When you uphold a responsibility for a life you did not personally create (i.e. a child not your own), you engender a sense of community well being and safety. This reflects a greater morality than simply "why? not my kid, after all".

In a "why... after all" world sociopathy becomes the norm rather than the exception.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where people do what's right simply because it's the right thing to do. After all, it might just be my kid that someone else saves, or my disabled sister that someone else lends a hand to, or my elderly mother that someone stops to help when she gets a flat tire.

I'd do it for you children, your family, your community. And, I'd do it for me, because it's the right thing to do.