School speed limits. What's your point of view?

[CookMySock]

a simple flashing light is very effective at waking people up who may not register the danger immediately. It is very well to say what "should" be, but the reality is that human beings are not that good at it.

You can't spoon-feed people forever. They just shut down to hazards more and more if you do that.

All idiot-proof laws gets you, is bigger idiots...

Exactly.

It's a fucken school bus. It's parked on the side of the road. Do the fucken math. No rocket science!

Steve

[Genestho]

AD345, Nice Post Dude. +1.

I don't have a problem slowing down for other peoples kids getting off a bus.
Being a minute or two late, is not a stress factor in my life.
I'd like other road users to slow down for my kids.
They have L Plates.
We as adults know better.
Stop the selfishness and Slow down.
Taking responsibility for yourself is quite a simple thing to do

[oldrider]

Years in our country's tertiary institutions do wonders for breaking one's faith in the world, mate.

Now, I'm sure that making the signs "flashy" will make people pay more attention, for all of maybe two months. Just like when they first started putting the current "SCHOOL" signs on the buses.

However, in a few months they will have grown acclimatised to these, and they'll just fade into the background clutter again. If they don't notice a two-foot wide fluro yellow sign, they'll be able to "blank" out just about anything barring the ol' red'n blue lights.

The "flavour" of my post is because unfortunately I don't have much time nor compassion for incompetence, especially in a situation where they are in control of sometimes more than two tonnes of quickly moving metal.

So many men, so many opinions, I respect your right to have and express yours.

What I don't respect are the people (in authority) who carry titles and retrieve comencerate salaries but never face up to their responsibilities!

Why are they retained when they do very little when it comes to taking "action" to improve obviously faulty systems and practices!

Public apathy?

What we all seem to agree on is that the current situation is faulty!

If we always do what we have always done, we shouldn't expect any different results.

If they wont change what they do, then lets have the strength to change them!

[Ixion]

A better question would be 'why not?"

However, We should all take some responsibility for those more vulnerable members of society, the young, the elderly, the disabled and so on.

It's what it means to be a member of a civilised society... a community. When you uphold a responsibility for a life you did not personally create (i.e. a child not your own), you engender a sense of community well being and safety. This reflects a greater morality than simply "why? not my kid, after all".

In a "why... after all" world sociopathy becomes the norm rather than the exception.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where people do what's right simply because it's the right thing to do. After all, it might just be my kid that someone else saves, or my disabled sister that someone else lends a hand to, or my elderly mother that someone stops to help when she gets a flat tire.

I'd do it for you children, your family, your community. And, I'd do it for me, because it's the right thing to do.

No. I will take *care* for vulnerable or fragile people. Including children .I will not take responsibility for them . If I am to take *responsibility* for your children , then I am going to demand a say in their upbringing and training. Which I strongly suspect you would not like at all. I have very definate opinions on such matters. Which are not at all PC .

I will (and do) take *care* around children. I will ensure (or do my best, anyway) that I can stop when they run out onto the road in front of me. But if I am *responsible* , then after taking the necessary evasive action, I will (a) be taking them to a place of safetey , since manifestly you (a hypothetical you, not necessarily a personal you) are not capable of properly caring for them . And (b) I will be round at your place reading *you* the riot act , and telling you how to raise them in futire., After all, I'm responsible.

You bred them. Your responsibility, Stop trying to shuffle out of it (again, hypothetical you)

All care. No responsibility.

[AD345]

No. I will take *care* for vulnerable or fragile people. Including children .I will not take responsibility for them . If I am to take *responsibility* for your children , then I am going to demand a say in their upbringing and training. Which I strongly suspect you would not like at all. I have very definate opinions on such matters. Which are not at all PC .

I will (and do) take *care* around children. I will ensure (or do my best, anyway) that I can stop when they run out onto the road in front of me. But if I am *responsible* , then after taking the necessary evasive action, I will (a) be taking them to a place of safetey , since manifestly you (a hypothetical you, not necessarily a personal you) are not capable of properly caring for them . And (b) I will be round at your place reading *you* the riot act , and telling you how to raise them in futire., After all, I'm responsible.

You bred them. Your responsibility, Stop trying to shuffle out of it (again, hypothetical you)

All care. No responsibility.

That's an incredibly simplistic view of community dynamics. You posit an "all or nothing" scenario where there are no differing levels of responsibility.

To be a responsible member of the commnity and make an effort to impart some of your knowledge and experience to a child seems to be beyond you.

To take your position to its logical extreme the role of teachers come with the burden of raising every individual that they have the responsibility of educating.

You (hypothetical you) choose to live in a community comprised in part of vulnerable and fragile people. Stop trying to shuffle out of the responsiblity that comes with being a member of it.

[Ixion]

I should have mentioned, BTW, that if I am to be responsible for your children, then I also demand a say in whether you have them in the first place. And the answer is going to be "No" in almost every case. For reasons that this thread should make self evident.

You make the decision to have children. They are your responsibility. If you want me to be repsonsible for them, then you must ask my permission fisrst. You didn't, I'm not.

[Trouser]

The 20 km/hr law is for when passing a bus, with School bus signs displayed, that has stopped, for the picking up or dropping off, of passengers (school children) This may happen outside normal hours expected.... ie. Evening school functions.

I wish the retarded bus company here used their "school" signs. I pass a school bus every day on my way to work and they never have signs. I have asked them but received no reply.

[FJRider]

I wish the retarded bus company here used their "school" signs. I pass a school bus every day on my way to work and they never have signs. I have asked them but received no reply.

This may sound over the top ... but ... they are required BY LAW, when transporting schoolchildren, to display "School Bus" signs. If they are NOT displayed, vehicles are NOT required to slow to 20 km/hr to pass them. A kid may die because of that. A phone call to the non urgent local police station to inform them will do wonders in this regard.

[Trouser]

If they are not on in the morning then I'll phone the local station.

[AD345]

I should have mentioned, BTW, that if I am to be responsible for your children, then I also demand a say in whether you have them in the first place. And the answer is going to be "No" in almost every case. For reasons that this thread should make self evident.

You make the decision to have children. They are your responsibility. If you want me to be repsonsible for them, then you must ask my permission fisrst. You didn't, I'm not.

As I said in my previous post you (hypothetical you) should take a measure of responsibility for vulnerable or fraigile members of your community.

I'm not asking you to raise my (hypothetical me) kids, I'm asking that you take an adult responsibility for members of your community over and above those directly related to you.

Would you feel no responsibility to take the keys from a drunk if you could do so?
Having done so - would you then demand the right to tell them how to live their life?

[Mom]

um, how are we supposed to answer that one?

Like this

Does any one else find this a problem or am I just getting a bit old and doddery?

No, it is just you

I actually agree with you, it is not easy to know what the posted speed limit is if you are not familiar with the area.

Going past a school bus that is stopped to let kids off though is a no brainer for me, slow right down, yes, heaven forbid to 20 kph, and putter past looking out for kiddlies darting out in front of you.

He used to personally escort the kids across the road and then give the mothers a right royal bollicking.

I lived rurally when my kids were at school and they were school bus travellers from day one. When they were really little I used to walk down to the end of the drive and see them on to the bus in the morning, was on our side of the road heading into town. After school, I used to walk to the end of the drive and cross the road and wait for the bus to drop them off, and then we would practise safe road crossing skills. I did that everyday for a long time, either my kids were slow learners or I was a paranoid mother who needed to be very certain they knew what not to do before I could let them cross the road unsupervised.

Not rocket science really.

Very sad to hear of children killed crossing roads off school buses.

[Ixion]

As I said in my previous post you (hypothetical you) should take a measure of responsibility for vulnerable or fraigile members of your community.

I'm not asking you to raise my (hypothetical me) kids, I'm asking that you take an adult responsibility for members of your community over and above those directly related to you.

Would you feel no responsibility to take the keys from a drunk if you could do so?
Having done so - would you then demand the right to tell them how to live their life?

No, I would not, if only the drunk were involved. The drunk makes his own decisions. He must live with the consequences. If those were certain (not merely lilely, who am I to judge) to endanger others, then yes I would take his keys. And then I most certainly would demand the right to tell him how to live his life. If I am forced to accept responsibility for something then I also demand the right to manage that responsibility.

I ride daily through South Auckland. I see many children. In the great majority of cases, if I am responsible for those children, then I am going to explictly demand major changes in their lives. Starting with removal from parents manifestly unfit to raise them in a manner of which I (as a responsible party) approve.

If I am responsible for (hypothetical) your children, then it would be irresponsible of me not to ensure that they are raised in a manner and to a standard that meets my approval. Those who wish me to accept responsibility for their children are welcome to PM me with details of how they are raising (or intend to raise) them; along with their intentions as to education, religious instruction, school and academic roadmaps etc. Preferably BEFORE the conception of the sprogs. Somehow I do not think I will have many takers .

Parents of children always have this strange attitude that they have done the world a wondrous service by bringing another squalling brat into it. I see no such benefit to an overcrowded planet. The more so considering the personal attributes of 90% of the progenitors.

I am saved from total misanthropy only because I sometimes have the priviledge of social interaction with some of the younger members of this site (mainly those who lurk in the SMC and LOTPIHGAD forums). Whom I would happily accept responsibility for, save that they neither need nor expect anyone to be responsible for them . And would I am certain be indignant at the idea. But , of course, they are bikers, so a higher standard than the average is only to be expected. I am encouraged to believe by their example that there is still some hope for the human race. Indeed , so much so that sometimes I am almost tempted to rejoin it.

Also, BTW, unless you are a lot older than is probable, I did not choose to live in your community. You chose to live in mine. You are always welcome to leave it. Door's on your left.

[Beemer]

I should have mentioned, BTW, that if I am to be responsible for your children, then I also demand a say in whether you have them in the first place. And the answer is going to be "No" in almost every case. For reasons that this thread should make self evident.

You make the decision to have children. They are your responsibility. If you want me to be responsible for them, then you must ask my permission first. You didn't, I'm not.

I agree 100% with Ixion here. I don't have children - a choice made by my husband and me jointly - so I in no way feel 'responsible' for other people's children. If a kid puts itself in a dangerous situation, it is not MY job to do something about it. I remember once trying to point out to a parent that their child was in danger or hurting itself and being told to "keep your fucking nose out of it" so I won't make that mistake again.

As Ixion said, a lot of people should never have kids because they aren't responsible enough to care for them. Unfortunately the general public has no say in the matter so they should not be held responsible for those children.

I don't feel responsible for every child in this world just as I don't feel responsible for every criminal or dangerous driver, etc. I will take action if I am put in danger or if it personally affects me in some way, but otherwise it is not my job to look after someone else's problems. If that sounds selfish, too bad. You have kids, you look after them. I'll take all reasonable care when they are in my presence, but they are NOT my responsibility.

AD345 said "If travelling along a rural road at 100k or higher and you are NOT scanning driveways and the like for possible problems you are running a large risk of grief" - like most of us, I DO scan constantly when riding or driving. Hazards are more likely to be avoidable if this rule is followed - but if someone ran straight out of a driveway in front of me, that would not be a hazard I'd be expecting. When an animal does this, it's because a fence has been breached or a gate left open - and it's the owner's responsibility - but the animal has no road awareness at any age and has never been taught how to cross the road properly. I think Mom had the right approach - take responsibility for your children until you are POSITIVE they can be trusted to cross the road safely.

[Genestho]

[QUOTE=Mom;1129216809]Like this



lol, nice eyebrows Mom, but can ya wiggle your ears hehe!!!

Sure parents, and their children have responsibilty, but as road users we have our license as a privelege, not a right.

Beemer. Your statement is indicative of a woman with no children.
I mean nothing by saying that, I thought similarly before children.

I suggest, "You'll" (Borrow's Ixions hypothetical 'you' guy) find most people without kids think this way, vs parents, who have spent 5 nights in a row getting up to sick kids or staying late with them when teething or cleaning up after tummy bugs, tend to have more of a community, and empathetic outlook on children and their safety.

It really does take a community to keep our children safe, always has, always will.

To assume something is not your problem, because it doesn't or won't affect "you" is blind. (borrows Ixions hypothetical you guy again)
Society on all levels, constantly reaps the consequences of that pattern of thinking.

Don't assume in theory that most parents don't educate their children from their ability to stand, walk and run... to look before crossing roads.

I think "you'd" also find kids and young adults, don't quite comprehend the finality of irresponsible actions, unless they've witnessed or lived through it.

"That will never happen to me" is a common theme. In both Adults and Children.
That, is why these things are called accidents.
Assume anything can happen, and quite often does.

Children are NOW species, whatever is going on their lives NOW is what comes first quite often in the brain process.

Hypothetically speaking, we don't know this 12 year child hadn't been teased on the bus before he got off eh?
We will never know why he wandered onto the road.

[Skyryder]

School buses could have flashing lights that come on when the doors are opened, at least switched to active when they are in service and carrying children!

The signals could be installed front and rear and when active "so is the speed limit"

I would like to see more of the "revenue" collected being spent on safety upgrades to existing traffic problems.

I.E. More clearly defined speed restricted area notices or road markings!

It is sometimes (as a stranger to an area) difficult to define just what speed you are limited to!

Surrounding traffic is often "no" indication and it's a long time between notices in some places.

Does any one else find this a problem or am I just getting a bit old and doddery?

It's a good idea Old rider. All they need to do is to have a flasher unit connected to both brake and indicator lights so that the unit is activated when the doors are opened. There would need to be an on off switch for when the bus has no students on board.


Skyryder