450s really ARE faster than 250 2T's

**kezzafish** · 18th May 2009, 15:36

Old subject that's bound to touch some nerves but i'm bringing back to the surface anyway 'cos i've discovered some legitimate racer evidence...

Download and watch "The Great outdoors" "another perfect season 2004" this is around transition time from 125s to 250 2Ts and same with the 450s and 250s. Every pro racer they speak to say without a doubt that the 4 strokes are faster including one dude who says something like "if you turn up to race day still trying to compete on a 125 you're an idiot unless your name is James Stewart"

Now i don't wanna get into a stupid rant about it's rider preference 'cos obviousely people have different preferences (My next bike will be a 2stroke KTM). I just want some admission form 250 2TMX ringtinger boys that 450s are faster at racing level. LOL.

**laserracer** · 18th May 2009, 15:59

Probably depends alot on the track...tight track ..2T open track 4t.. we have both .. and both are 2002 yam 250 2t and yzf426...The 250 hangs on till mid 3rd gear then its see ya latter.. but if it starts to tighten up ...its see ya latter 426. The 250 is easyier to ride and isnt as tiring .. but the 4 stroke loves mud and steep hills

**Reckless** · 18th May 2009, 16:04

Yep I'm a 2 smoke man through an through but the 4t's climb better, deliver their power smoother, their performance is more than most need and their damn near as light now days.
BUT
as I have said before you can make a 2 smoker do nearly anything! The reason the world has gone 4 stroke is for emission reasons ie they don't blow smoke! Bullshit! I reckon that's an excuse for the factories to make 4 strokes more as the revenue stream is far far greater. Most people have to take take it to the shop for valve jobs, timing chains/issues, piston changes etc. So the factory and the dealers simply do much better out of 4 strokes.

Change the porting, flywheel weights, timing, pipe etc etc on a 2 smoker and you could achieve a very similar result. Ktm are 1/2 way there with the exc range. If all the factories put as much R&D into the 2smoker you'd be there I reckon. But they don't want us changing our own pistons and loosing all those valve jobs their dealers do and revenue from the sale of the parts they supply for them.

So as a 2smoker guy is a 4 stroke better? YES at the moment probably. But if they put the same R&D into 2 smokers maybe not?? Also if me an my kids had 4 strokes we couldn't afford to ride! Especially if we had of bought second hand in the years we started buying (01-05) they certainly wouldn't have cost me less than $200 (new piston kit an do it yourself) each to freshen up for me an my kids to ride!!

IS a four stroke better? my mates son that races a KX450 in the top 3 in MX 1 in NZ says yes, but is a 2smoker cheaper to run an more fun/challenge also yes!

Just my 2c!! And I don't give a shit if you don't agree!! LOL!!!

**honda_power** · 18th May 2009, 16:38

no-one here has ever denied that 450s are faster.

However, 250 2Ts are much lighter and cheaper to maintain.
They also FEEL faster as the hit is much harder [which means less traction but who gives a shit]

I jump alot so the weight of the bike is much more important to me than outright horsepower.
For those who dont jump the lighter bikes handle way better... well... everywhere.

Ill take my 250 2 stroke anywhere that a 450 can go, and ill beat most people out there on a 450.

If you like 450s... good for you. You wont get me [or alot of us on KB] on one though.

Ive ridden many 450s and they all feel like tanks to me with the exeption of Raglanash's 09 crf

**B0000M** · 18th May 2009, 16:40

odd, on an open track, my 250 will pull away from the 4t's on the straights.... and im definately heavier than them. allthough i will agree on the 125 comment quoted, the 250 4t's are definately faster

**vr4king** · 18th May 2009, 17:57

Originally Posted by kezzafish

Old subject that's bound to touch some nerves but i'm bringing back to the surface anyway 'cos i've discovered some legitimate racer evidence...

Download and watch "The Great outdoors" "another perfect season 2004" this is around transition time from 125s to 250 2Ts and same with the 450s and 250s. Every pro racer they speak to say without a doubt that the 4 strokes are faster including one dude who says something like "if you turn up to race day still trying to compete on a 125 you're an idiot unless your name is James Stewart"

Now i don't wanna get into a stupid rant about it's rider preference 'cos obviousely people have different preferences (My next bike will be a 2stroke KTM). I just want some admission form 250 2TMX ringtinger boys that 450s are faster at racing level. LOL.

Hey mate wheres this torrent??

**kezzafish** · 18th May 2009, 18:14

http://www.mininova.org/tor/1044525

Here's the link to the torrent. Watching the 05 season now and guess what... no one is riding 2 strokes anymore!

Yeah i know it's all personal preference and as i said i want a 2 stroke as my next bike cos of the weight of enduro 4 strokes but MX 4 strokes are cool as. Just slightly incompatible (gearing etc) with the type of riding i like.

I kinda disagree with ya about the price of maintenance reck... Anyone who is prepared to change their own piston is gonna do it 4 or 2 stroke and valves don't need replacing like it's been said. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist and i'd argue that the top level racers decide where the development money goes and if the 4 stroke is faster on the track then that's what the racers are gonna ask for. If i need to do valves every 3 years even at $800 this price is well offset by how many expansion chambers i would have crushed by now and the price of pre mix. I don't give a shit either but i do find it interesting to discuss and i kinda get a kick out of stirring shit (as long as no one takes it the wrong way)

**vazza** · 18th May 2009, 18:19

Check out what our top enduro riders are using

http://www.silverbullet.co.nz/CLUB/E...ade_Expert.pdf

PDF is required.

112T's /14 4T's

**tommorth** · 18th May 2009, 19:02

I think the valve thing is a bit hit and miss seems to be plenty of 4ts that drop valves with fairly low hour resulting in expensive repair bills but some just seem to go and go known of a few to make over 250hours on the original valves and crank

as to which is faster don't know and don't really care for the riding I and probably most of us on here its all down to whos rideing the bike

**LittleJohn** · 18th May 2009, 19:21

Definitely believe it's all personal preference and I love 2T's but am thinking of a 250 4T for trail rides (if wife will let me have 2 bikes).

As for which is faster who cares unless you are a full on racer.... but I do know that at the club my boy races at the 2T 80's are a lot quicker than the 4T 140's which race in the same division. Most of the 4T kids change to the 2T if they want to get decent placings and a chance for a podium finish.

**Pierce** · 18th May 2009, 19:24

Originally Posted by tommorth

I think the valve thing is a bit hit and miss seems to be plenty of 4ts that drop valves with fairly low hour resulting in expensive repair bills but some just seem to go and go known of a few to make over 250hours on the original valves and crank

as to which is faster don't know and don't really care for the riding I and probably most of us on here its all down to whos rideing the bike

Agreed, I've heard of people doing 150hrs without even doing a top end on some 250 4T's but also the same bikes doing less than 50hrs from new and crapping their pants so it's hard to say on that. BUT, with a 2T you can count the moving parts on your hand yet over 100 in modern 4T's. I do the maintainence on my 250 but if I still had a 4T you can bet the bike shop would be getting a bit more of my cash.

I know that the bike companies stopped developing the two strokes hence why they don't support riders using them. I know 4T's are easier to ride fast but I think it comes down to the rider and the track as to which bike is faster. Most cases the 4T will win but not always.

The way I see it, i'm not trying to be the fastest on the track so i couldn't care less what you guys are riding. All I can say is i'm stoked that I can do my own rebuilds quite simply

**flyingcr250** · 18th May 2009, 19:37

im also a 2-stroke man and as long as someone is making them ill be buying them. maybe more people will buy them when they sort out efi for 2-strokes??? think i read in DRD that they were close to sorting it??
also if the E-TEC technology used in the new 2-stroke outboard boat motors could be applied to 2-stroke bike motors then the emissions would be far better than that of the four strokes.

BWWWAAAAAAPPPPP!!!!!!!