Wellington Ride to Wairarapa for newbies 8 April 2007 Photos here

[Trudes]

Just make sure any newbies are still looked after in the "free for all" bit. Nothing worse as a newbie than being escorted to the middle of nowhere and then being abandoned and left to find your own way home! (I speak from experience - not a KB ride, though)

Yep good point, but as I don't class myself in the league of being an experienced rider, I would not like to be left with the responsibility of looking after newbies, especially on my own or with my hubby as we often have been. This is one of the reasons why experienced riders were called on to come along and help.

but I'm still keen on the idea of starting a weekly weekend cruisy (newbie) ride in the same vain as TCWNR - does anyone else think this would be good?

It's a good idea, but as much as I organised these rides this time (because nobody else put their hand up to do it), I would not be keen to organise them all the time. Once or twice a year, but I don't have the time/energy/patience or like having the responsibility of it, to do more than that sorry. Someone else may like to organise more regular rides....

[James Deuce]

It's a good idea, but as much as I organised these rides this time (because nobody else put their hand up to do it), I would not be keen to organise them all the time. Once or twice a year, but I don't have the time/energy/patience or like having the responsibility of it, to do more than that sorry. Someone else may like to organise more regular rides....

One also needs to ask the question - why organise mass rides for newbies anyway?

KB mass rides especially for newbies, do NOT have enough time put into presenting the dangers of riding in a group (by far the most dangerous thing you will do on a bike), and very few people have the testicular fortitude to tell someone who is behaving like a dick to go ride by themselves please.

I think it shows great wisdom to be wary of organising group rides Mrs Kendog.

I think small groups of maybe no more than four with an experienced leader and TEC might be the way to manage newbie rides in future.

Bikes and people die on group rides. Newbie group rides should be about developing a disciplined approach to social group rides. Social rides are not to be confused with the fang rides that people go on with good mates, people they've ridden with for years.

[Colapop]

Jim while I cannot argue that there have been unfortunate incidents and the untimely passing of some great people on group rides the group ride itself has not been the cause of the accidents. By providing a disciplined approach group rides can be a good learning experience for a number of people at one time.

How do you tell people that there are limited numbers allowed on a newbie ride? How you determine who should or should not ride? Shouldn't we, as a group of riders, be trying to encourage and help new or learning riders as much as possible?

For the record there were no bins yesterday on the ride that was organised.

[Trudes]

That's a bloody good point Jim. I think Buckbuck mentioned something about a buddy system for this next ride. Maybe that's the way to handle it. It's nice for newer riders and people new to KB to meet a big bunch of KBers, and talk rubbish at lunch, but maybe while riding we could buddy each newbie up with an experienced rider to ride with.

[The Pastor]

which one is unlce pop?

[Colapop]

Uncle Pop??? You wanna know which is me? I'll change my profile pic for a couple of days...

I'm the one in the middle...

[James Deuce]

Jim while I cannot argue that there have been unfortunate incidents and the untimely passing of some great people on group rides the group ride itself has not been the cause of the accidents. By providing a disciplined approach group rides can be a good learning experience for a number of people at one time.

How do you tell people that there are limited numbers allowed on a newbie ride? How you determine who should or should not ride? Shouldn't we, as a group of riders, be trying to encourage and help new or learning riders as much as possible?

For the record there were no bins yesterday on the ride that was organised.

You tell people there are limited numbers on a newbie ride based on how many experienced people with the right attitude are turning up. You shouldn't be throwing people into a group situation without a good idea of what sort of space their head operates in and whether or not you know that they can be relied up to make good decisions. You certainly shouldn't be doing it without having clear instructions for leaders and TECs, clear ideas of your destination that everyone understands, and a commonly understood set of basic guidelines for what constitutes safe group riding behaviour.

Group riding is very, very dangerous. You are being far too flippant. I do not go on many group rides anymore, becauseI've seen people die on rides I've organised, and I've had people ruin mine and other people's day (literally - going and getting a trailer to haul back someone's wrecked bike roots your riding time fun) because they just weren't up to riding in a large group.

You try wearing the responsibility of killing, maiming, and leading people into damaging their bike and having to spend a lot of money to put things right and then tell me that organising large rides, with people who've never ridden in a group of more than 2 or 3 people, maybe never ventured out of an urban area, is perfectly safe.

[elle-f]

I was under the impression that these *Newbie* rides were for newer riders OR those who are new to KB - which doesn't mean they have no experience. Not that it matters.

ANYHOW..

My draggins are a size 8 and are baggy.....that's all I'm saying

[elle-f]

btw Jim - I did read your post and i am sorry you have seen people die on the roads. That would be my worst nightmare. I also see the points that you have made very clearly.

Elle

[merv]

My draggins are a size 8 and are baggy.....that's all I'm saying

So you got some leather on order too like Mrs KD?

As for group rides I've always enjoyed them whether it be road rides with e-riders, Ulysses or KB, or trail rides or adventure rides where we can have hundreds turn up and there has been little need for many rules.

It is always difficult to deal with the different wants and needs. It was typical when I rode with Ulysses and to some degree with e-riders and now with KB that once the lunch break is over everyone has different needs about home time and so the group disperses and then it is hard to look after everyone because they don't all want to go the same way. At that point even newbies need to take some personal responsibilty and perhaps make sure they are at least teamed up with someone.

[James Deuce]

I was under the impression that these *Newbie* rides were for newer riders OR those who are new to KB - which doesn't mean they have no experience. Not that it matters.

Yes, I know what you mean.

In my experience, the "experienced" riders who've never ridden with the group they now find themselves in are worse than 19 year old males riding 250 two strokes.

They inevitably end up racing each other and being drawn into riding faster than they should be.

Thanks for understanding where my bleak view of group riding comes from.

[James Deuce]

It is always difficult to deal with the different wants and needs. It was typical when I rode with Ulysses and to some degree with e-riders and now with KB that once the lunch break is over everyone has different needs about home time and so the group disperses and then it is hard to look after everyone because they don't all want to go the same way. At that point even newbies need to take some personal responsibilty and perhaps make sure they are at least teamed up with someone.

I actually think that attitude stems from the Kiwi, "she'll be right attitude". I think that it is counter-productive, and when you are specifically targeting new riders you need to take a bit more responsibility for making sure they understand where you are going and making sure they are comfortable and happy.

My first few group rides were nasty because I was trying to keep up with mono-syllabic blokes who were of the opinion that if you couldn't keep up with a highly modified RD350 on your 250 single, then you weren't worthy of every being invited back.

I've done the group ride thing for more than 20 years. I'm kind of sick of having to clean up after other people's crashes, when the crashes could have been avoided.

You're talking about riding with people who've ridden for years too Merv, and have ridden in a social setting for years. Some of the KB rides have been first time group rides for people who've ridden alone for years.

[Hawkeye]

So you got some leather on order too like Mrs KD?

As for group rides I've always enjoyed them whether it be road rides with e-riders, Ulysses or KB, or trail rides or adventure rides where we can have hundreds turn up and there has been little need for many rules.

It is always difficult to deal with the different wants and needs. It was typical when I rode with Ulysses and to some degree with e-riders and now with KB that once the lunch break is over everyone has different needs about home time and so the group disperses and then it is hard to look after everyone because they don't all want to go the same way. At that point even newbies need to take some personal responsibilty and perhaps make sure they are at least teamed up with someone.

I know where your coming from Merv. It is the responsibility of each and every rider to ride within their own ability. When I am out on a ride, whether it be by myself, with a small group of mates or a bigger 'organised' ride, I take full responsibilities for my actions. I do not expect others to take that responsibility.
I am fortunate enough to never have been on a group ride where there has been an incident, and I hope that I never do. Years of driving a cage has taught me road sense and the need to keep myself safe. I ensure that I give myself the time and space to handle the conditions including the ability of the others around me. I am an old bugger (who is also a 'newbie' ) that has already got that survival instinct built in. That instinct tells me that I can't ride with the fast group. And if I don't feel comfortable I will back off even if it means I'm left behind. But,without the 'organised' group rides of KB I may never have had the opportunity to meet some good people that I now call friends.
My understanding of the newbie rides was to give newer riders the opportunity to meet other more experienced riders so they can ask the dumb questions and get a bit more education. I don't see it as a place for training. That's where the mentoring system kicks in.
Even the ride on Sunday, when the group split in different directions, there were experienced riders who left for the Hutt early whilst others headed out for a blast. There were other experienced riders that hung around and then had a leisurely ride back. As you said, It's up to each rider to join the group where they will feel comfortable.

[Colapop]

While I understand (and fully agree with) the burden of having organised a ride where there has been an accident, if it has not been of the organisers causing then the guilt should not be carried by that person (easier said than done though).
I raised these points not to be flippant or downplay the seriousness of some of the loutish behaviour shown by some riders on group rides, but to say that I for one don't want to turn newbie riders away from getting mentoring or advice that can be given. I don't claim to be as anywhere near experienced as some of the respondents to my comments, just trying find a common ground.

[James Deuce]

So the attitude is to keep your head buried in the sand, and never expect bad stuff to happen, to never learn from the experiences of the past, and just keep doing it the same old way then?