Never happen here .. this is NZ

[Delerium]

quote strategically benign environment unquote

[Hitcher]

little closer to home gang .. lets hope the P3's and Herks can defend us

The UK military has way better kit than do we, and fat lot of good it's done them. This "war" on terror isn't a war in the traditional sense. It's largely a war of rhetoric by leaders of superpowers who have no bloody idea what to do about it. Clearly invading middle eastern countries and denying people of their fundamental human rights and liberties doesn't help. One wonders what's in store next?

[scumdog]

Off Topic (sort of) but amazing how the persons responsible for the depletion of out armed services are so quick to front their gargoyle type faces to the media when a member of said armed services is getting the Victoria Cross.

Just thought I'd throw that in...

[SARGE]

The UK military has way better kit than do we, and fat lot of good it's done them. This "war" on terror isn't a war in the traditional sense. It's largely a war of rhetoric by leaders of superpowers who have no bloody idea what to do about it. Clearly invading middle eastern countries and denying people of their fundamental human rights and liberties doesn't help. One wonders what's in store next?

jeeze hitcher ..


please dont take this the wrong way because you know that i normally respect your opinion on things .. but at the same time i am not one to sit by and smile politely when i disagree with something ..


you are obviously an educated man .. i just cant understand how someone like yourself can blatantly overlook the big picture here ..


i never guessed you to be a left wing media lemming


if you have some free time ..please go grab a copy of Americas Secret War by George Friedman and give it an open minded read.. this is one of the best books on the subject i have ever read, and it attempts to view everything from a pure neutral perspective ..

highly recommended

[Street Gerbil]

Sarge,
in a sense I have to agree.
War on "Terror" is a losing war by definition, because one cannot win if he fails to identify the enemy correctly.
So it is an empty rhetoric and will remain such until a proverbial spade is called "a spade" and not a "gardening implement of peace".
So as long as leaders of superpowers suffer from hypertrophied PC, I don't expect any real progress.

[SARGE]

Sarge,
in a sense I have to agree.
War on "Terror" is a losing war by definition, because one cannot win if he fails to identify the enemy correctly.
So it is an empty rhetoric and will remain such until a proverbial spade is called "a spade" and not a "gardening implement of peace".
So as long as leaders of superpowers suffer from hypertrophied PC, I don't expect any real progress.

put me in charge .. i'll replace the 'spade' with a big fuck-off sledge hammer

[Street Gerbil]

Well, Sarge, I meant to say that war on "terror" is a hopeless cause, but war on militant islam was won in the past (Spain is known as "Spain" rather than "al-Andalus") and can be won again as long as the enemy is identified correctly without regard of how the UN "security" "council" and "peacniks" at home will react.
BTW have you heard Chuck Norris's take on the problem?
--- "Get the troops out and let me in" :-)

[Swoop]

'Paris' whom?

paris france?

[Sanx]

Well, Sarge, I meant to say that war on "terror" is a hopeless cause, but war on militant islam was won in the past (Spain is known as "Spain" rather than "al-Andalus") and can be won again as long as the enemy is identified correctly without regard of how the UN "security" "council" and "peacniks" at home will react.

Actually, Spain under Muslim rule was a hell of a lot less fanatical than it was under the Catholic rule that followed. Catholic rule in Spain heralded the Spanish Inquisition and could be regarded as the first example of fanaticism in the western world.

[Street Gerbil]

Actually, Spain under Muslim rule was a hell of a lot less fanatical than it was under the Catholic rule that followed. Catholic rule in Spain heralded the Spanish Inquisition and could be regarded as the first example of fanaticism in the western world.

Certainly.
However, unlike the states that failed to shake off the yoke of Islam, Spain managed to reform itself away from the Dark Ages.

[avgas]

Fuck im bored here, terrorism would only make life exciting in NZ

[SARGE]

Certainly.
However, unlike the states that failed to shake off the yoke of Islam, Spain managed to reform itself away from the Dark Ages.

any organized religion is the root of all evil.. the weaker the mind, the stronger the spirituality..

there have been more wars fought " in the name of Gawd" than for any other reason

bin Laden issued a Fatwa in the mid 1990's against the US, for all intents and purposes, declaring war on the US that very second ..

[SARGE]

Fuck im bored here, terrorism would only make life exciting in NZ

until your family is killed ..torn limb from limb, set on fire and hung from the harbor bridge

[Timber020]

You cant fight terrorism with firepower, but you can create and motivate more of it.
You cant fight it with a foreign policy that alienates you from half your allies while blackmailing the other half.
You cant fight it by trying to enforce a world rulebook while throwing it out with your own actions.

The nations that seem to be Americas enemies are some of the poorest and downtrodden on the planet, and it often doesnt take much guessing whose been doing the most treading. (and the US is far from being the only one)

I have lived in the states, love the place and the people, but so often they seem blind to why events like 911 take place, and then ignorantly think striking out with there massive military is going to make them safer.

It doesnt take great weopons, training or funds to pull off a big terrorist act, it just takes motivation, something the US sadly supplies its enemies in bulk.

[Street Gerbil]

You cant fight terrorism with firepower, but you can create and motivate more of it.

Only if you are fighting shadows. That's the problem with the present war on "terror" as I outlined earlier. Once the correct target (militant Islam as opposed to mythical "islamists") is identified, there is a chance of success.

You cant fight it with a foreign policy that alienates you from half your allies while blackmailing the other half.

If your anti-terrorism actions,intending to make civilians safe, alienate your "allies", than a question must be asked, "do I really need enemies, or the friends will do for now"? Diplomacy is certainly not the tool for fighting terrorism. If fighting terrorism with weapons is akin to fighting fire with fire, diplomacy, i.e. negotiating with terrorists is like fighting fire with fuel.

You cant fight it by trying to enforce a world rulebook while throwing it out with your own actions.

You can't fight by trying. Full stop. Yoda said it best: "Do, or do not. There is no try." That's in part the American problem. They are trying to do the right thing instead of actually doing it. No one fights World War with 50000 troops. It takes millions. The army the size of allied army of WWII could have won their war (on condition that they fight the correct enemy) in a matter of weeks.

The nations that seem to be Americas enemies are some of the poorest and downtrodden on the planet

Actually there is a plenty of serious high rollers on the list.

I have lived in the states, love the place and the people, but so often they seem blind to why events like 911 take place, and then ignorantly think striking out with there massive military is going to make them safer.

That's your personal opinion. Their opinions may differ. We all entitled to one, aren't we? The problem however is not in their massive military. The problem is in their massive PC that prevents their military from doing their job.

It doesnt take great weopons, training or funds to pull off a big terrorist act, it just takes motivation, something the US sadly supplies its enemies in bulk.

Nothing emboldens terrorists more than percieved weakness. US enables terror attacks on itself by strictly following its extremely restrictive rules of engagement, allowing terroists escape unscathed. Have you ever heard about terrorism in China? In Egypt? In Russia? That's because those countries have simple anti-terrorism ROE: "Kill them all and let Allah sort them out". Uigures (sp?), Chechens, and members of Moslem Brotherhood learned that messing with their host countries is just not worth it.

Having said all that, I have to admit that the outlook is not good. President Bush has demonstrated to the world that trying anything that may potentially take more than 4 - 6 years to achieve is a political suicide. This is the one most important thing that will motivate terrorists all over the world for the generations to come - the fact that they can win by attrition. All it takes is to survive one US presidential term.