David Bain's "I shot the Prick" 111 call?

[Skyryder]

Way off base. Of all the people you could meet I am the least likely to act on a belief (without strong evidence to back it), and the most suspicious of those who do adopt causes. I'm a woman of science overall - so concerned not to judge what I do not know (even if I may have no trouble formng an opinion) that I would NEVER go on a jury. Several times have declined under the religious belief opt out, saying it is against my belief to judge things when I do not know. I add that in too many trials there is no ability to know - and the material that is presented is so manipulated by Judges and lawyers as to often present no relation to salient facts. They haven't sued me yet!

My strong "belief" is in not expending energy on passions - anger and drive like Karams is typically borne of ego and causes cancer of cardiac issues so is best avoided unless you've a hankering to die young. To have such hyperactive passion over a (perceived) injustice - especially when it likely isn't - is not admirable in my book but certifiable. Unless you're people of red setters or Weimeraner type. Developmentally it is 5 year olds who stomp and stew over apparent "its not fair" scenarios, and often immature adults who are attracted to dramas with whiffs of unfairness. Life is not fair - thats why its so interesting, but please set priorities on "altruism" with some discernment - work with reality in a mingling way not by playing god.

If Karam had turned his inner wound to some really concerning cause like starving kids caused by loan usury in the third world, I might have more sympathy. In this case he should have just had a cup of tea and after doing some digging walked away - but I believe at some point it just became about winning to him. Expending such energy on a well looked after Kiwi in one of the best prisons in the world - who likely did do heinous things but got promoted from arrested adolescent paper boy to engineer - is a disgrace.

We are put on this earth once, and have a grateful responsibility to use the time well. I just think that those who celebrate Karam could find far better specimens to put on pedestals if they have such a need. But never mind me - I also think the same re Edmund Hilary. Maybe I was born wrong side of the world. But heros to me are everyday people who don't seek the limelight - Karam is out of perspective, he is a fanatic who has won over the weak minded (including some journos) imo.

The cannabis buyer who took a bullet for the cops (they said he was just dropping by for coffee on 3 news tonight!) in Napier. The guy I know spending everyday at the bedside of his son who is brain injured from a rugby game, the ABs who visited him a couple of days ago, the 17 year old I work with who has for 2 years nursed her puppy love who has serious cancer (and her Dad just died) yet still smiles at work and is a light to many adults and peers - I have ultimate respect for that girl.... yup I can reel off about 1000 Kiwis I'd admire more

Karam thread anyone? Heard a DJ saying "Bain sees him as a Father figure"... audible gulp.

At the end of the day we all act on our beliefs. We do things that we believe are right and in most cases this is governed by our conscience. You may not agree with what Karam has done.......that's your choice so is your defination of heroes.

As for Bain seeing Karam as a father figure.................I'd watch out. So on this we can agree or disagree..............your choice.


Skyryder

[candor]

Hilarious Mom. What an insult - poor SR. About as bad as the day someone suggested in earnest and meaning it as a compliment that maybe I should go into politics. But SR is right. It is about adjudicating, keeping things ticking along without too many vigilante wars. Not Justice. Just like small claims court is often an exercise in futility. "Pay the money".... 20 years passes.

[98tls]

Hilarious Mom. What an insult - poor SR. About as bad as the day someone suggested in earnest and meaning it as a compliment that maybe I should go into politics. But SR is right. It is about adjudicating, keeping things ticking along without too many vigilante wars. Not Justice. Just like small claims court is often an exercise in futility. "Pay the money".... 20 years passes.

Actually mate i reckon its about thinking,whilst theres many different opinions that sometimes cause heated debate methinks without said differing opinions where would we be eh,in a far worse place methinks.

[smoky]

Bain is innocent. the fact that there are muppets on here who believe otherwise is sad.
all you "bain is guilty" crew, are you really so stupid .... I pity your parents!

do you really think your single opinion is more valid that 12 opinions of others who know the facts ?

if you think he is guilty, you are very fucking stupid! and i suggest you kill yourself as a service to the rest of the world. and don't leave a mess !!!

I bet you got some red for that, upsetting the flat earth society
At lest the Bain case is giving all of us who have nothing to do on a Friday night, something to do

[smoky]

...suspicious of those who do adopt causes.

My strong "belief" is in not expending energy on passions - anger and drive ...is typically borne of ego and causes cancer of cardiac issues so is best avoided unless you've a hankering to die young. To have such hyperactive passion over a (perceived) injustice ... is not admirable in my book but certifiable.
.... stomp and stew over apparent "its not fair" scenarios, and often immature adults who are attracted to dramas with whiffs of unfairness.

.....In this case he should have just had a cup of tea and after doing some digging walked away .......Expending such energy on .... is a disgrace.

We are put on this earth once, and have a grateful responsibility to use the time well. ........ But heros to me are everyday people who don't seek the limelight - Karam is out of perspective, he is a fanatic .....

I think if I were locked up inside for a crime I didn't do, and no means of fighting it, or family to help - I would be thankful for some hyperactive passion from some immature adults, over the injustice

[candor]

We do things that we believe are right and in most cases this is governed by our conscience.
Skyryder

Hmmm, and often no-one (often even the conscience sufferer) can define why one course is taken over another. Valkyrie, Mother Theresa Karam and I suppose even the big H were acting on a noisy conscience. Wonder on that word - its not far from a cross of conscious and science?

[candor]

I think if I were locked up inside for a crime I didn't do...

Can be arranged. Plenty here will no doubt support any KBers in deep forensic evidence and circumstantial crap when they get in that Every Street dilemna.

[smoky]

…Expending such energy on a well looked after Kiwi in one of the best prisons in the world - who likely did do heinous things but got promoted from arrested adolescent paper boy to engineer - is a disgrace.

You should become a little more educated on the conditions and limitation of prison life before making such ignorant statements

And also I don't think you describe him as a adolescent - he was 20, he was educated and doing well in his chosen field of study
And he's far from being an 'engineer' now - I think he completed a course on CAD design, not a degree or anything as stated in some media reports

[steve_t]

You should become a little more educated on the conditions and limitation of prison life before making such ignorant statements

Isn't it wonderful that the prisons are being built with underfloor heating? And that each cell costs more to build than a hotel room? Are those bars REALLY expensive?

[smoky]

. I'm a woman of science overall - so concerned not to judge what I do not know ....... it is against my belief to judge things when I do not know.

And yet you have made some harsh judgements about Mr Karam, with very little knowledge ?

My strong "belief" is in not expending energy on passions - anger and drive like Karams is typically borne of ego
.... To have such hyperactive passion over a (perceived) injustice ...(is)... certifiable.

Developmentally it is 5 year olds who stomp and stew over apparent "its not fair" scenarios, and often immature adults who are attracted to dramas with whiffs of unfairness.

If Karam had turned his inner wound to some really concerning cause.....
..... I believe at some point it just became about winning to him.

...those who celebrate Karam could find far better specimens to put on pedestals if they have such a need.
... Karam is out of perspective, he is a fanatic who has won over the weak minded (including some journos) imo.

Karam thread anyone? Heard a DJ saying "Bain sees him as a Father figure"... audible gulp.

So you know this man? Or are you just judging his entire character by the way he has been portrayed in the media?

You do realise he was a successful businessman as well, and he did it with no media exposure

He was an AllBlack - when was the last time you saw him use that to gain media attention?

what the hell do you know about the people he's helped in his local community? the help he's given to the schools?

Do you even know anything about his charitable efforts? You might be surprised how involved he is in supporting work for third world development - but he doesn't seek media attention for it.

Unfortunately he needed the media to get the Bain case the exposure it needed.

perhaps your energy is ill focused in judging someone you may know nothing about?

or am I wrong

[candor]

My point was I won't judge in the form of legal verdicts. Otherwise it is natural to assess and form best guesses re things we don't know 100%. Lighten up. I'm not claiming to know him intimately or be a Karam authority but I do judge his publicised activities as foolish (don't worry - that won't jail him). It is opinion and as such could well be wrong. Just like yours. Unless of course you are much closer to Karam than you let on. A dead ringer maybe? Yes the crystal I'm swinging tells me its true. Ill focussed - nah, only if it preoccupies me for the next 20 years, which is unlikely. But I stand by that our prisons are nice - as I know many people who've gone out to offend so they can go back there... and have worked in Justice facilities. Mmmm spa pools, mmmm family days, mmmm gyms, mmm libraries, mmm lotsa touchy feely do-gooders and drugs, mmm bad boy loving gfs on tap, conjugal visits - ahhhh that criminal chic!

[98tls]

as I know many people who've gone out to offend so they can go back there... and have worked in Justice facilities. Mmmm spa pools, mmmm family days, mmmm gyms, mmm libraries, mmm lotsa touchy feely do-gooders and drugs, mmm bad boy loving gfs on tap, conjugal visits - ahhhh that criminal chic!

Retards beyond saving/never seen one in my time/one set of weights only access is to long-termers for an hour a day/never bothered/you watch to many movies/not in my time.

[candor]

Retards beyond saving/never seen one in my time/one set of weights only access is to long-termers for an hour a day/never bothered/you watch to many movies/not in my time.

Well for spas try transfer to hospital based justice facilities / for gym try some low sec units - too many movies re what the drugs or the do-gooders? / no groupies or conjugals in your time - must have picked wrong place like some remote tightly run place. I don't deny there are downsides, often registers on the faces in the ones you call "retards" in the dock as they think "wasn't careful what I wished for".

[98tls]

Well for spas try transfer to hospital based justice facilities / for gym try some low sec units - too many movies re what the drugs or the do-gooders? / no groupies or conjugals in your time - must have picked wrong place like some remote tightly run place. I don't deny there are downsides, often registers on the faces in the ones you call "retards" in the dock as they think "wasn't careful what I wished for".

LOL yea fair call,wont be taking your advice but thanks all the same.Left it all behind many moons ago.

[ynot slow]

Come what may in 12 months we'll be saying David Who,much like it was for the first 10yrs of his jail term,till the court retrial was granted by Privvy council.