Shut CYF down

[Oakie]

Why do I watch those kids go back to the people who maltreat them, over and over again? What do CYF actually do?

Dunno. I suppose return to the 'now happy and functional family' has to be the goal and there must be high fence to get over before you can actually remove kids permanently.

[Usarka]

Dunno. I suppose return to the 'now happy and functional family' has to be the goal and there must be high fence to get over before you can actually remove kids permanently.

Sometimes the act of trying to get over can leave the fence damaged.

[bull]

ID be interested to know what the story would have been if the girl was 5yrs old and not 4 - as its widely accepted that kids walk home alone after school.

CYFs are a joke have seen plenty of evidence of this first hand.

[Oakie]

Trouble is the act of getting over can sometimes leave the fence damaged.

I just meant a legal 'fence'. What is the test of circumstances where you justifiably remove kids permanently.

[Usarka]

I just meant a legal 'fence'. What is the test of circumstances where you justifiably remove kids permanently.

Wow I thought you meant a real fence.....

[RantyDave]

I was just reading this too. I can kinda see CYFS point - they are tasked with investigating when someone complains and again and again and again some kid gets the shit kicked out of them when they don't. What they need is triage. Some way of rapidly sorting the wheat from the chaff, some way of filtering between genuine community concern and a know it all arsehole who thinks it's a good idea to wrap children in cotton wool until they're 18 - at which point they presumably become responsible, aware etc by some act of god. In that they haven't done this the words "They've failed" sum it all up precisely.

We can't afford a state-funded Gestapo and community based informants at the moment.

No we can fucking not. On a similar theme I was chatting to a mate who works in the alleged public service last night about how nice it must be to have a job where you get paid for trying. Y'know, having a jolly good pop, putting your best foot forward and having a nice positive attitude instead of actually achieving something. If we paid public servants by results rather than count of meetings attended or whether or not they used to play rugby then Wellington would have worse poverty than central Africa "by lunchtime".

Dave

[James Deuce]

But in this case it is substantiated. The kids were at the park unsupervised. And according to the rules it sounds like teaching kids some personal reponsibility and trust is big no-no....... (or at least until mum and dad have been treated like crims)

Yes. It's one of the substantiated crimes against kids that makes you go, "WTF?"

[CookMySock]

"Sometimes, children playing unsupervised for long periods of time can be an indication that there are wider family issues that need to be addressed," said CYF general manager Lorraine Williams.

That is just their projection based on what they believe, and is more an indicator that people who carry such beliefs should not be working for organisations like CYFS to begin with.

Steve

[Oakie]

Wow I thought you meant a real fence.....

I knew you got it as a metaphor but I guessed you meant that it was the family that was damaged.

[Oakie]

. What they need is triage. Some way of rapidly sorting the wheat from the chaff, some way of filtering between genuine community concern and a know it all arsehole

Now THAT is a good idea.

[Pixie]

When I was 5 and my brother was 12 we used to go off into the bush out the back of Tawa and catch crayfish in the streams and cook them.And do many other activities.

I guess,for kids today,that is all gone thanks to the "Precious Lamb Syndrome".

Today CYF would arrest our parents for not accompanying us and PETA would harange us for cooking the crayfish.

This country is fucked.

A nation of weaklings that run off to a counsellor when they stub their toes.

[Oakie]

That is just their projection based on what they believe, and is more an indicator that people who carry such beliefs should not be working for organisations like CYFS to begin with.

(Kids playing unsupervised for extended periods)

God, I've seen it myself. Two houses up the street where we used to live. Mum used to work at the bistro attached to the pub. She'd finish at 2.30pm to be home in time for the daughter's to arrive home from school. From time to time though she'd stay and have a a few after work drinks and then a few more. When we saw the kids (about 6 and 8?) still playing outside at 5pm with the schoolbags at the door we knew Kath was having a session and would probably be home about 6pm with chips for tea. In that case the kids were reasonably OK because they would have had about 3 sets of neighbours keeping an eye out for them but if you had that happening in 10 different houses there's a good chance that in some of those houses there would be some bad shit going on too. That's why CYFS investigate. Because in some cases, where there's smoke there's fire.

Oh. In our case I don't think any of us neighbours would ever have thought of calling CYFS because we knew the kids were generally looked after.

[Blackbird]

This country is fucked.

Nah, publicity like this distorts what goes on outside the main centres where kids can still be kids and get on with doing the sort of stuff that caused this latest nonsense without raising eyebrows.

As for the country being fucked, the amount of overseas visitors who comment on the high personal freedoms for kids here would suggest that a fair chunk of the world is in a far worse state.

As long as the focus stays on the main centres, us country types can simply get on with doing what we've always done

[davereid]

Yes. It's one of the substantiated crimes against kids that makes you go, "WTF?"

Yes, no doubt this case will be manipulated into "an investigation of potential child abuse", which will be used to show how important CYFs are and how under resourced they are and how we need more of them.

At 9, I and every kid in my neighbourhood was taking themselves, and younger siblings to school and the park. By 12 we were cycling to the beach and the swimming pool, catching the bus into town to go to the movies and by 14 we all had after school jobs.

This is just crazy. N.Z. IS less safe than it was in the 50s and 60s, but it is not yet so dangerous that kids can't be allowed to be kids.

I guess this parent will play it safe now - give the kids a bottle of pop, a bag of chips and the TV remote. Then CYFs will be happy with him.

[Skyryder]

I can't help but wonder what would have been the response if something 'untoward' happened to the kids.

Any parent who leaves children unsupervised in a park needs a good bollicking.

It's the first place child predators hang out and if one sees this as a habitual thing where the parent does this on a regular basis it does not take a rocket scientist to know what is likely to happen should a child molester be on the lookout.

Older children can be a problem too.


The bottomline on this is if you have children in a public place you look after them to see that they come to no harm.


Skyryder