Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

[oldrider]

Soooooooooo......do we have an answer to the origional question yet????

How about:....(February 1840)....He iwi tahi tatau!....We are now one people!....Work in progress!

[mossy1200]

Soooooooooo......do we have an answer to the origional question yet????

The answer is it will never end.
Reason is a final settlement is only final until another tribe gets a larger settlement.When this happens then your tribe can bring forward the fact that your tribe was disproportionally paid a figure that was not large enough.
This is the maori version of inflation as the 3year old settlement will always be smaller than the fresh settlement so the cycle of low settlements never stops.
Where the money goes no one knows..

[Deano]

The answer is it will never end.
Reason is a final settlement is only final until another tribe gets a larger settlement.When this happens then your tribe can bring forward the fact that your tribe was disproportionally paid a figure that was not large enough.

This to me is the fly in the ointment and quite ridiculous.

I believe that at least in some areas things ARE improving for Maori. Certainly in education.

I don't know about crime or health stats, but I assume (dare I) that Maori are progressing in these areas as well. The improvements in education will certainly have an impact on these two areas.

Once Maori are not so disproportionately represented, then maybe we can start to back off on all the race based legislation that caters more to them than any other people in NZ.

This may be idealistic and would probably take another 200 years or so, but for now we just have to keep on keeping on.

I think silly proposals that have occurred (Pita Sharples - no tertiary prerequisite for Maori, Maori not having to register their dogs cause they are Taonga, and various others) tend to sour our relationship and make us think that all Maori are just out for what they can get.

And given this country's history of handouts (not just to Maori), who can really blame (some of) them for taking all that they can get. They have been conditioned to do so.

[Solly]

Yeah Yeah Ya Ya Ya.......

[Brownstoo]

Not meant to stir up a load of anti-anybody anything but just want to ask about the Maori land / financial settlements I see in the news from time to time. Particularly:

Is there an end in sight?
What happens to the money? Does it benefit or support Maori communities or individuals directly and in what way?
Where does the money come from? Surely one generation of Kiwis couldn't afford to settle long-standing, historic claims out of public money / their taxes?

No end in sight till people stop guilt tripping out and letting the fuckers take advantage of our general naive good naturedness.
The money comes from your pocket. If it doesn't come from taxes where the hell else would it come from? I mean they're being compensated for white people being here in the first place.
The money goes to corrupt maori fat cats.

[Deano]

Yeah Yeah Ya Ya Ya.......

Wasn't it "yep yep yep yep" with a big sigh ?

Or are you talking the Asian Arnold ?

Or was it too long ago to care.

[Solly]

Wasn't it "yep yep yep yep" with a big sigh ?

Or are you talking the Asian Arnold ?

Or was it too long ago to care.

You got it.....

Not too long at all......just enough to still remember the good stuff

[junkmanjoe]

in the topic of land clames.

my old boss was leasing land of the maori.

and he started to dig out the pit metal, and take it away.
this is the good part.
a year later, they come back and ask where there land has gone....
it cost him heaps...

[Solly]

.......and he started to dig out the pit metal, and take it away....

What the hell is "pit metal"????

[oldrider]

Not meant to stir up a load of anti-anybody anything but just want to ask about the Maori land / financial settlements I see in the news from time to time. Particularly:

Is there an end in sight?
What happens to the money? Does it benefit or support Maori communities or individuals directly and in what way?
Where does the money come from? Surely one generation of Kiwis couldn't afford to settle long-standing, historic claims out of public money / their taxes?

Soooooooooo......do we have an answer to the origional question yet????

When Solly posted his question I thought it was Molly the original poster asking the question, Solly about that Molly!

So Molly, (the original) are you any wiser or further ahead on the topics of your questions, as a result of your thread?

[Molly]

So Molly, (the original) are you any wiser or further ahead on the topics of your questions, as a result of your thread?

Just really as I said in post 315:

It's been insightful but not in the way I'd expected. It does seem that 'settlement' (whatever that is taken to mean) is like an open sore. If nothing else, at least the Kiwis seem to handle the matter with a measure of openness and honesty absent from similar discussions in some countries I can think of.

[Solly]

When Solly posted his question I thought it was Molly the original poster asking the question, Solly about that Molly!

So Molly, (the original) are you any wiser or further ahead on the topics of your questions, as a result of your thread?

....I think were all confused now

[Deano]

What the hell is "pit metal"????

Does it have something to do with moshing ?

[oldrider]

If you use Feb 1840 (the treaty)as a stake in the ground and read history (such as it is) backwards, then come back to the treaty.

You will appreciate the reason for the treaty. (so many men, so many opinions)

It's like a game of rugby, it's the same game but everyone sees it from a different position and perspective.

Every individuals perspective is flavoured by which team they think they are supporting as well.

The treaty was not a game and there were multiple players involved not just simply two teams and not very many of them were aligned with each other.

It is too simple to just think of it as being between two definite groups, Maori and and the British Crown. (Pakeha)

There are/were many copies and versions of the treaty document floating around and as a consequence many claims of which is the original, depending on what was required from the document.

I believe (and can stand correction) that the version written for the Maori language (there was no true written language for Maori) has been declared and agreed to be the official copy.

This is the copy that the collective Iwi got their information from and was the one that they understood!

The Treaty is a founding document, a stake in the ground, a point of time to move forward from as "one people, one land".

The progress made in the last 169 years has been pretty remarkable considering how many distractions (World wars, economic booms busts etc) have been placed in the way.

Iwi are even yet far from united and have many unresolved grievances registered with the Waitangi tribunal.

Simply because the chiefs signed the treaty, it didn't mean they were united and agreed with each other, there was much history between Iwi to overcome.

Equally on the settlers side there were multiple groups, nationalities, religious interest etc to contend with, all wanting outcomes according to their own specific needs and requirements.

The Crown was served by delegation of existing British political and governance methodology and systems for the young and growing society of New Zealand.

The collective tribes or Iwi, had no written language or united governance systems etc to fall back on, so they went with British Crown.

What I have tried to convey to those who think that the colonisation of New Zealand was a simple matter between two distinct groups of people is that they are mistaken and that notion is a myth.

The Maori as they are now referred to were and always have been, deeply divided and distinct tribes or Iwi and none regard any of the others any greater status than themselves.

I think there were over 52 signatory Chiefs that signed the Treaty Of Waitangi and even then some would not and did not ever sign it.

The fact that we have got this far as a nation in 169 years is absolutely remarkable and something that we all as the people of the land should be absolutely proud of.

I thought I could write this up briefly but there is just too much and there will still be those who say I am way off the mark anyway.

I just hope it is of some value in the discussion of this thread.

Forgive me if it is not.

[Winston001]

John - that is an outstanding post. Chur bro.