Flags, colours, and their use

[quickbuck]

Not just stop then and there I can give a reason I have seen for this to and its not a nice result.

.

Correct.


I can only imagine how bad the example you have ended......

[Ivan]

You try tell a rider that at riders breifing who was told a red flag is hand in the air slow down from race pace and circulate back to pit lane and form up in the marked area of pit lane to allow room for the ambulance and not to stop on track at any point or ry and help a fallen rider as we have marshells there for that job that this rider has done wrong.

You are now trying to say that after the rule he was told he is then ment to break? by stopping instantly.

Waving a red at one rider means wopdy shit he is still going to think the race is over and to circulate and you doing the stop thing at him most riders wouldnt be watching the marshell they are watching the flag, Waving saying stop probably he got confused and thought oh stop the race Red Flag situation.

Im sorry om on the riders side for this one if it was a black flag or a black and orange flag then that is a differnt story but using the wrong flag that has its own meaning and saying the rider did wrong for doing what the red flag means then I cant understand it

[Ivan]

Correct.


I can only imagine how bad the example you have ended......

this happened at a meeting a few years ago the red flag came out and instead of riders ciculating to the pits riders stopped on the grid and a collision occured sadly with one rider losing his life.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sh1t, sorry, I means water from the subject bike.... It wat a blown Cam cover gasket, not a head gasket.

Of course there was Bloody water!!! Only person who thought it was fun was Neil.... As usual, everybody else complained.

All I can tell you is that there was water (in the form of big globules - not a rainwater) alonmg the line he was riding and across the track where he crossed. The oil line started once he was on the outside of the track. Thank goodness. If it had been left across the track at that point, it is concieveable that the meet might have been called.

he didnt do anything wrong.....you have said he wasnt black flagged,and the red flag doesnt mean get of the the track now....tell me exactly what was said at the riders breifing re the red flag.
that is entirely your interpretation,he didnt have someone telling him what to do through a radio earpiece,he was cruising back to the pits,probably wondering a) what was wrong with his bike,or b) wondering how he was gonna fix it.There are always two sides to a story,you are not seeing things how he saw them

"Technically" he didn't do (too much) wrong, BUT could be under no illusion point after point as to what officials wanted him to do. Marshalls don't attend rider's briefing, so I don't know what was said. I would assume that the flags, and their meanings, are mentioned and that riders are to follow instructions. There are some instances where an action is required that may not be covered entirely with a few simple flags...

Not just stop then and there I can give a reason I have seen for this to and its not a nice result.

Oh, absolutely! There is no way that a rider would be expected to stop on the track. Or in such a position that they would be left vulnerable to following riders. This situation was not in that vein.

In this case it was qualifying though....

I don't think so. It was during the Streetstocks first race.

[Ivan]

now I have all the repect in the world for the marshells so dont get me wrong I am not being a arrogent shit Im just saying what the rules are and the marshells should have the correct flags supplyed to them,

from reading your last post if he didnt do much wrong is there really a point for this thread as basically now the rider has pretty much been said who he was without naming him by saying what class he was in etc and he is probably a new comer and sees this post and feels like shit that people are saying he should know better etc and could put him off racing If there is an issue there is a riders rep to see on the day or race control and MNZ steward could be approached not leave it then Rip into someone on the net

I know your not being melicous just threads like this can allow for people to be abused by alot of keyboard heroes on this forum

[roadracingoldfart]

Marshalls don't attend rider's briefing, so I don't know what was said. I would assume that the flags, and their meanings, are mentioned and that riders are to follow instructions.

Well there is a point i have mentioned before and i personally would like to see both Marshalls and Riders attend the same briefing. That way there is a cross over of understanding and NO grey areas as to who is aware of what may happen and what is expected of either in a given situation.

In this instance the rider DID "follow instructions "to the letter and yet there is a lynch mob assembling to cover over a bad call by the limited flags available. If the rider was given a wolloping by the MNZ steward then he is due an appology by same.

Racers are expected to know the rules and yet the MNZ steward can cock up something like a wet race rule or a bad flag call and nothing happens. WTF ??

Paul.

[ajturbo]

Well there is a point i have mentioned before and i personally would like to see both Marshalls and Riders attend the same briefing. That way there is a cross over of understanding and NO grey areas as to who is aware of what may happen and what is expected of either in a given situation.

In this instance the rider DID "follow instructions "to the letter and yet there is a lynch mob assembling to cover over a bad call by the limited flags available. If the rider was given a wolloping by the MNZ steward then he is due an appology by same.

Racers are expected to know the rules and yet the MNZ steward can cock up something like a wet race rule or a bad flag call and nothing happens. WTF ??

Paul.

i can see an interesting chat soon eh?

[MSTRS:Me]

Good call. No intent to pillory this guy. Just trying to clarify flags and their rules.
It would seem that there is a good case for marshalls to have a greater range available to cover the rare situations like this one was.

[roadracingoldfart]

i can see an interesting chat soon eh?

You mean there is a good chance you are going to drink all my beer while i rabbit on

[FROSTY:Me]

After a quick chat with somebody closely involved I would like to make this offer to VMCC.
Millars Car Centre will if needed purchase enough black flags for EVERY marshal point round the track.
I think this has in a VERY lucky way highlighted an issue.
No offence meant to anyone involved I do feel that strongly about the need for sufficient black flags being available to keep riders "safe".

[roadracingoldfart]

Good call. No intent to pillory this guy. Just trying to clarify flags and their rules.
It would seem that there is a good case for marshalls to have a greater range available to cover the rare situations like this one was.

I get asked why i have $40.000 worth of tools at work , simple , i need it its there even if thats 2 times a year, same with flags , they dont have to be used but if they are needed they are available and communication is then clear. That makes it safe too.

Shit , the easiest stuff works best aye .

[Skunk]

You CAN'T have Black Flag with the Orange Dot and a number system at every flagpoint. Read the Rule Book. Stop suggesting it.

We had a situation and tried to deal with it. It failed. The Red flag was the only weapon in the arsenal. We were out-gunned...

[Skunk]

Well there is a point i have mentioned before and i personally would like to see both Marshalls and Riders attend the same briefing. That way there is a cross over of understanding and NO grey areas as to who is aware of what may happen and what is expected of either in a given situation.

At present the flaggies are going out onto the circuit as the riders briefing is being held.

[Her_C4]

Can't say if he was aware of fluid leaking, but he was aware that all was not well with the bike, and he couldn't fail to be aware that marshalls wanted him to stop and get off the track.

yes but he did the right thing then if given a red flag the rider shall slow down to a safe pace and circulate back around to the pits. Not just stop then and there I can give a reason I have seen for this to and its not a nice result.

A black flag is more appropraite if a marshell used the wrong flag then it his his problem not the riders.

Interesting thread, CF and I talked about the incident on the way home last night. Not having read ALL the thread I will risk raising the ire of those who were not out there at the time, but have commented regardless.

MSTRS I have now (belatedly) realised that it was you marshalling at that point or I would have introduced myself!!

Regardless - I was on top of the wall by the marshalling point taking photo's directly into the hairpin, when the rider came around. He was on the outside of the track riding slowly and his bike was spluttering somewhat so at that stage I would have been very suprised if he was not aware that he was leaving a legacy of oil etc for other riders.

By the time the rider came around to MSTRS marshall point, he was still on the outside of the track and hestitated when he saw the flag being waved with the instruction to pull the bike over. The message was very clear and the rider appeared to understand that he needed to pull off and he hestitated for a bit - looking back at his bike several times and then at the track behind him before slowing down even more and pulling left a bit... and then continued.

It is perhaps worth noting that he was the only rider on that part of the track at that time, and apart from climbing down and knocking him off his bike, I don't think that MSTRS could have done anything else at that time. His instructions were clear and his hand signals (stop and pull in here) could not have been misconstrued - the speed of the rider (or lack thereof) meant that he had a very clear view of the instructions for quite some time

Phew that was my .000002 cents worth

[Skunk]

There is of course the MNZ rule that states that if you cannot continue at race pace (which he was not) park the bike.

He broke that rule fair and square.