The H bomb in Wanganui

**spacemonkey** · 18th September 2009, 13:31

Personally I think it's worth doing the Whanganui name change just to see the vein on Mayor Lhaws forehead pop.

**MisterD** · 18th September 2009, 14:12

Originally Posted by short-circuit

Please explain - you've just offered two contradictory positions

Just to add historical context - As was the experience of my Gaelic ancestors, Maori sustained an deliberate attempted extinction of their language through colonisation........need I continue?

Not at all contradictory, language as a means of day to day communication. Names, although they have have meanings rooted in a particular language are somewhat independent of that...

As to historical context, my Anglo-Saxon ancestors also sustained a deliberate attempted extinction of their language, but that language proved in the final analysis to be far superior to both Norse and French...

I really don't particularly give a flying whatever how any town is spelt (I'm still campaigning on silencing the "w" in Renwick though) I just can't help being irritated by this illogical argument over "correct" spelling of a name.

I think the best solution all around is, since we have two official languages, give any major settlement an official Maori name alongside it's "English" name. The tourist punters'll lap it up...

**allycatz** · 18th September 2009, 14:53

So when does the 'H' go in 'Whinz' (winz) then......?

**Oakie** · 18th September 2009, 15:02

I haven't read any of this thread so at the risk of repeating what someone else may have said ... my understanding was that the Maori didn't even have a written language before the Europeans arrived so what is being corrected is actually the European spelling derived from indigenous phoentics. The spelling 'Wanganui' was probably an accurate representation of the phoenetics the Europeans were faced with given the local iwi's pronunciation which is more like a 'Waanganui'. But of course Europeans don't tend to like two 'a's together (unless it's in an 'aardvark') so they called it 'Wanganui'.

Up until now I've been quite comfortable with the notion that it should be 'corrected' to 'Wh' ... but now I'm thinking that perhaps 'Waanganui' might be even more correct and give respect to the proper pronunciation of the word in regard to the local iwi.

**MisterD** · 18th September 2009, 15:06

Perhaps the best solution is actually to give the Maoris a pencil and paper and ask them to come back when they've got an alphabet?

**imdying** · 18th September 2009, 15:22

Originally Posted by Oakie

Up until now I've been quite comfortable with the notion that it should be 'corrected' to 'Wh' ... but now I'm thinking that perhaps 'Waanganui' might be even more correct and give respect to the proper pronunciation of the word in regard to the local iwi.

Yeah, I like that idea... spell it so that all Kiwis (and visitors) have a good chance of pronouncing it in the same way as the local iwi... Maori is still a pretty young language, if they're modifying it (or evolving it rather), why not make it easier for people to take up (given it's an official language and all)... adapt, survive, conquer... that has to be better than it dying out through lack of use.

**Headbanger** · 18th September 2009, 15:23

Considering the Maori word for banana is....wait for it....Panana, I'd imagine asking them to come up with an alphabet would be an exorcise in taking massive shortcuts.

a.....d.......c.......b......

**SPman** · 18th September 2009, 15:25

Originally Posted by Taranaki Herald, May 14 1859

WHANGANUI
[From the Wanganui Chronicle, April 28.1859]
In one of the earlier sessions of the Wellington Provincial Council, an Act was passed, by the exertions of Mr Watt we believe, to change the name of this town from Petre to Wanganui not Whanganui — the ugly looking H was purposely left out.
Everybody was pleased, for there was scarcely any perceptible reason why the name of Petre should be associated with those of Wellington and Nelson, or of Auckland ; for there is something historical and Colonial even about Auckland ; but who ever heard of Lord Petre distinguishing himself in any way except by getting his son a clerkship under the New Zealand Company ?
It might have been better perhaps to have given to Wanganui, an appellation connecting the settlement with some English or Scotch City or County ; but it is too late now to make another change ; and we call attention to the subject with the view of getting our post stamp altered from Petre to Wanganui

Recorded pronounciation is a tricky thing, anyway. I have seen Kororareka, spelt Kodoradeka, for instance (before it became Russell - a "nice" English name.)
With the original pronounciation, the H should probably go in front of the W, anyway!
I thought the hard F sound for Wh, was a Waikato thing, anyway! The Wh should be a soft sound, as in ..why.

**MSTRS:Me** · 18th September 2009, 15:28

Originally Posted by Oakie

I haven't read any of this thread so at the risk of repeating what someone else may have said ... my understanding was that the Maori didn't even have a written language before the Europeans arrived so what is being corrected is actually the European spelling derived from indigenous phoentics. The spelling 'Wanganui' was probably an accurate representation of the phoenetics the Europeans were faced with given the local iwi's pronunciation which is more like a 'Waanganui'. But of course Europeans don't tend to like two 'a's together (unless it's in an 'aardvark') so they called it 'Wanganui'.

Up until now I've been quite comfortable with the notion that it should be 'corrected' to 'Wh' ... but now I'm thinking that perhaps 'Waanganui' might be even more correct and give respect to the proper pronunciation of the word in regard to the local iwi.

You are on the right track. Except the local dialect has it as a breathy W...so the H could be put to good use (phonetically) by writing the place as Hwanganui...

**Maha** · 18th September 2009, 15:35

Take the H out of White and its still White...Wite??
Put it back in and still White, cant see why putting an H into Wanganui will change anything, apart form signs etc. Its not illegal to say you live in Wanganui, the local people will not be arrested for mispronouncing a word.

**MSTRS:Me** · 18th September 2009, 15:38

Originally Posted by Maha

Take the H out of White and its still White...Wite??
Put it back in and still White, cant see why putting an H into Wanganui will change anything, apart form signs etc. Its not illegal to say you live in Wanganui, the local people will not be arrested for mispronouncing a word.

But the local agitators that want the change will NOT be paying for all the changed signs etc. And if individual businesses that incorporate Wanganui in their name don't change it on their signs - graffiti, petrol bombs, that sort of thing.

**Maha** · 18th September 2009, 15:41

Originally Posted by MSTRS

But the local agitators that want the change will NOT be paying for all the changed signs etc. And if individual businesses that incorporate Wanganui in their name don't change it on their signs - graffiti, petrol bombs, that sort of thing.

There has been the odd time when someone/s changed the R in Warkworth to an N making it Wankworth, I think thats to funny....