Skeptics take on the anti-1080 nutters, and others

[Blackbird]

ALL contributors to pollution in Waikato waterways, big or small, need to be made accountable and it needs to stop. You disagree?

Yes, I partially disagree. If you stop all pollution, you stop enjoying all the economic benefits which we all currently enjoy and I doubt that's something which you would support. The so-called "allowable" pollution limits are set by reguatory authorities by and large using the best science available at the time, tempered by the needs of commerce. I might add that in general, these limits are being tightened over time rather than the reverse. There is no easy answer to a certain degree of pollution at the current time. However, I completely agree that deliberate acts of dumping require the full force of the law to be applied.

[Skyryder]

If you consider the MASSIVE deforrestation in NZ for farming, cows have caused infinately more damage to NZ's native environment that possums ever could. Also, if you want an idea how dairy farming is further fucking our country up, come to the Waikato and take a look at the rivers. They're absolutely FUCKED. Full of shit, in the name of milk. And here so many people talk of possums as a threat to the industry without considering for a second the threat that the industry has on the environment. It would take several nukes to erradicate possums. Best we can do is pay hunters (unemployed, work-for-the-dolers etc...) to keep the numbers down and people employed.

Ya don't have to convince me of the damage that the dairy industry is causing.

This self regulatory thing is all bullshit or cowshit............more to the point.

Don't want to get off topic with this but the axing of Burk from the Ecan chair is a case in point. Just when Ecan starts making some inroads into water polution the rural councelors and the Mayors within the Ecan area get into their 'bagging' mode and Burke gets dumped.

Skyryder

[avgas]

"You can never change the world, try something smaller like yourself"
This piece of advice has been followed by some of the greatest people in the world. When you understand how it works you realize all those people out there "forcing change" are achieving nothing, if they can not change themselves and be happy - no one will follow.
I'm not saying 1080 is a good thing, but if i wanted to see it gone - the last thing i would do it point at a problem. I would change myself and look for a better solution. Surely a group of motorcyclist could understand this - I mean when you go around the corner, do you look at that dangerous piece of fenceline to the left? The on-comming car to the right? Or the way around the corner?
If you failed to take the corner - who's fault is it?
Drag that loci of control inside, it has worked for me.

[98tls]

No idea about the Waikato but can speak of Waitaki area,in particular the Kakanui river,its fucked and theres nobody dumping anything into it other than dairy farmers,to make it worse many of them are sucking water directly from it only to have it run back in eventually but full of crap.Aside from what it does to the fish the fact is they have ruined it as a place for local people to spend some time during summer.Bloody annoying that they get away with it here and no doubt plenty of other places around NZ.I am no greenie treehugger type but these guys are just taking the piss

[NDORFN]

Yes, I partially disagree. If you stop all pollution, you stop enjoying all the economic benefits which we all currently enjoy and I doubt that's something which you would support. The so-called "allowable" pollution limits are set by reguatory authorities by and large using the best science available at the time, tempered by the needs of commerce. I might add that in general, these limits are being tightened over time rather than the reverse. There is no easy answer to a certain degree of pollution at the current time. However, I completely agree that deliberate acts of dumping require the full force of the law to be applied.

I am totally prepared to accpet economic consequences of an abrupt end to all pollution of waterways. I may not make as much money as a result, but it would be offset by how much money I'd save engaging in FREE activities involving the use of our waterways ie. swimming as opposed to going to a movie, fishing instead of buying MacDonalds. To a huge extent, people accept pollution as a necessary part of economic stability because we need money for activities that have replaced free activities which we are now unable to partake in due to the fucking pollution. What would you rather have for your kids... the means to provide a big screen TV and a Playstation or the means to provide them with a clean river to fish and swim in? You can't have both.

[Hitcher]

You can't have both.

I disagree. The issue is whether people are prepared to pay the true cost of their lifestyles or to take responsibility for the downstream affects they or their businesses have on the environment.

[NDORFN]

I disagree. The issue is whether people are prepared to pay the true cost of their lifestyles or to take responsibility for the downstream affects they or their businesses have on the environment.

There is no choice anymore. Your generation took it away.

[Blackbird]

There is no choice anymore. Your generation took it away.

Ummm.... previous generations had rather less concern for the environment

[NDORFN]

Ummm.... previous generations had rather less concern for the environment

But the problem is compounded each generation by the increase in population. So each generation has to put in a far greater effort just to cut even with the last.

[Hitcher]

There is no choice anymore. Your generation took it away.

It's nice to see the next generation also refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.

[NDORFN]

It's nice to see the next generation also refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.

We're working on it. Only foreseeable problem, and it's a big one, is that by the time we have the political power to make the changes it will be too late.

[NDORFN]

"You can never change the world, try something smaller like yourself"
This piece of advice has been followed by some of the greatest people in the world. When you understand how it works you realize all those people out there "forcing change" are achieving nothing, if they can not change themselves and be happy - no one will follow.
I'm not saying 1080 is a good thing, but if i wanted to see it gone - the last thing i would do it point at a problem. I would change myself and look for a better solution. Surely a group of motorcyclist could understand this - I mean when you go around the corner, do you look at that dangerous piece of fenceline to the left? The on-comming car to the right? Or the way around the corner?
If you failed to take the corner - who's fault is it?
Drag that loci of control inside, it has worked for me.

Man I can't even remember the last time I made a 1080 poison drop.

[scumdog]

But the problem is compounded each generation by the increase in population. So each generation has to put in a far greater effort just to cut even with the last.

Damn tootin' right - there's waay too many people on this planet.

And the percentage of them that are idiots is too high

[scumdog]

It's nice to see the next generation also refusing to take responsibility for their own actions.

It's the 21st century Hitch...it's always 'somebody elses' fault these days, get with the programme

[sAsLEX]

But the problem is compounded each generation by the increase in population. So each generation has to put in a far greater effort just to cut even with the last.

Doesn't help when we let so many in the door as well, and our social welfare system rewards large families.