Greenie hypocrites overcharge taxpayer for minister's houses

[rainman]

It has to be one of the worst options. We would return to the see-saw, two party load of crap.

Thanks to the paucity of real parties outside of the main two (Jim and Peter don't count), we're pretty close to this as it is. ACT, the Greens, and the Maori Party are the only real alternatives to the other useless bastards. What we need to make MMP work is more, stronger parties, not less MMP.

Actually, Bill's home is in Dipton.
...
If he didn't live in Dipton (or some other part of his electorate) he wouldn't be eligible to stand as an electrate candidate, only as a list candidate.

Bollocks, he owns a house there, true, but we all know he lives in Wellington.
And double bollocks about living in the electorate: how's Honest Johnny get it right to live in Parnell (when he's not in Hawaii), but be the member for Helensville, then?

yes just why, if the double dipping was noticed in June, was the money not repaid until September...in secret?

That is the crux of the issue, and the area where I will happily hold the Greens to account, same as anyone else.

...then finding out they were guilty of similar rip-offs:

I think the point is that they are different rip-offs. One possibly being nothing at all like the other, in fact. Or even a rip-off.

[Jantar]

......

Bollocks, he owns a house there, true, but we all know he lives in Wellington.
And double bollocks about living in the electorate: how's Honest Johnny get it right to live in Parnell (when he's not in Hawaii), but be the member for Helensville, then?

.....

From the Electoral Act 1993:

47 Registered electors may be members, unless disqualified
(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, every person who is registered as an elector of an electoral district, but no other person, is qualified to be a candidate and to be elected a member of Parliament, whether for that electoral district, any other electoral district or as a consequence of the inclusion of that person’s name in a party list submitted pursuant to section 127.

and:

72 Rules for determining place of residence within New Zealand
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, the place where a person resides within New Zealand at any material time or during any material period shall be determined for the purposes of this Act by reference to the facts of the case.

(2) For the purposes of this Act, a person can reside in one place only.

(3) A person resides at the place where that person chooses to make his or her home by reason of family or personal relations, or for other domestic or personal reasons.

[Mully]

Thanks to the paucity of real parties outside of the main two (Jim and Peter don't count), we're pretty close to this as it is. ACT, the Greens, and the Maori Party are the only real alternatives to the other useless bastards. What we need to make MMP work is more, stronger parties, not less MMP.

While I agree with the sentiment of this, we need to be realistic:
ACT will only align themselves with National
The Greens will only align themselves with Labour.
Jim will only go with Labour

Seems that perhaps the Maori Party (and perhaps Peter Dunne) are the only guys who will go where they get the best deal (ignoring the debate on whether it's the best deal for them or their constituents of course)

I think you're correct on many small parties being the go. It might be a better way of getting truly democratic representation.

This "National/Labour" argument is pointless. National and Labour have both done things I approve of and things that I disapprove of when they've been in power.
I also agree with some of the things the Greens advocate. The problem with the Greens is they have come across as well intentioned but window-licking lunatics.

[Forest]

From the Electoral Act 1993:

47 Registered electors may be members, unless disqualified
(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, every person who is registered as an elector of an electoral district, but no other person, is qualified to be a candidate and to be elected a member of Parliament, whether for that electoral district, any other electoral district or as a consequence of the inclusion of that person’s name in a party list submitted pursuant to section 127.

and:

72 Rules for determining place of residence within New Zealand
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, the place where a person resides within New Zealand at any material time or during any material period shall be determined for the purposes of this Act by reference to the facts of the case.

(2) For the purposes of this Act, a person can reside in one place only.

(3) A person resides at the place where that person chooses to make his or her home by reason of family or personal relations, or for other domestic or personal reasons.

You're misreading the Electoral Act. Re-read the section in bold.

There is no requirement under NZ law for an electorate MP to live in the electorate they represent.

[JimO]

Jest in fun ol' son. Still it's another agreed cause. Shit this is getting dangerouse. 'Bring back Helen'

Skyryder

fuck helen

[Indiana_Jones]

the ironing is delicious....

-Indy

[rainman]

The Greens will only align themselves with Labour.

I think less so, at the moment.

The problem with the Greens is they have come across as well intentioned but window-licking lunatics.

LOL! Well, someone has to fight the bastards that are trying to destroy our environment. On that basis, I'll forgive the occasional bit of window-licking looneydom.

[cs363]

Link??

10thingies

Here you go: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...dip-rent-error

[FROSTY:Me]

Noone has yet been able to explain to me why a country with only 4.5 million people needs more politico's and their attendant lackeys than Australia and other countries with several times our population

[McJim]

fuck helen

I wouldn't.

[Mully]

I think less so, at the moment.

Possibly - but they've come out in public and said they wont work with National


LOL! Well, someone has to fight the bastards that are trying to destroy our environment. On that basis, I'll forgive the occasional bit of window-licking looneydom.[/QUOTE]

Fuck, it was hard work removing your links from that quote.
I agree. I think actually mining these sites is stupid. And if you aren't going to mine them, why do you need to investigate what's there?

That's partly my point. In Germany (I think), they run MMP and the Greens are basically part of every government. Here, because they position themselves badly (remember, perception is fact in this case) and refuse to consider working with the party that, lets face it, was always going to run away with the last election, they've been left (so to speak) out in the cold for the next three years (at least).

So anyone who voted Green in 2008 effectively threw away their vote. The Greens would have been much better to have taken up John Key's offer to have a chat, and see if they could get a look-in.

[MikeL]

It would be helpful if people made the effort to distinguish policies from politicians. They are not interchangeable terms. Discrediting an MP or even a party because of dodgy behaviour doesn't invalidate the issues and concerns which those MPs and parties espouse. The Greens are an easy target because they are a varied group of individuals loosely united by a commitment to environmental protection but (a) for the most part inexperienced in Realpolitik, (b) generally unwilling to compromise their core principles and (c) relatively tolerant of diversity of opinion among their members.
Whether the Green Party as it exists in this country today is or can be an effective political force is an open question. Whether in its present organisation or not, some sort of "green" advocacy will be a force in the future. In Europe similar political parties are taken far more seriously than here. Our level of debate is typified by the reaction to the lightbulb affair last year where a legitimate environmental issue was hijacked (to a large extent by the media) and misrepresented. Does anyone care to find out how many overseas countries have already, or are planning to have, similar provisions for the phasing-out of incandescent bulbs??
Any misdemeanour by the Green Party will continue to be pounced upon by those who think that discrediting the people will somehow make the issues go away. Because that's the real problem: the most vehement opposition to Green ideas comes from those who can't accept that their familiar and cosy and profitable ways of organising society and economic life can't continue for ever. Destroy the Greens, they think, and we can get back to the real issues facing this country: paying less tax, improving business productivity, attracting more overseas investment, growing, growing...
The current Greens may make good sacrificial lambs (or scapegoats), but any victory for the business-as-usual brigade will be temporary.

[Pixie]

fuck helen

Eeeeeeewww

[Pixie]

I think less so, at the moment.



LOL! Well, someone has to fight the bastards that are trying to destroy our environment. On that basis, I'll forgive the occasional bit of window-licking looneydom.

Go live in a cave and concentrate on composting your own shit

[MisterD]

Fuck, it was hard work removing your links from that quote.
I agree. I think actually mining these sites is stupid. And if you aren't going to mine them, why do you need to investigate what's there?

There's a difference between mining under some standard greenish coloured bit of land on the edge of a National Park and sticking a drilling rig next to Mitre Peak...