Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Clockwork]

Jon,
I'm not too familier with Boulcott street or the P&D parks to which you refer but that road is pretty much all hill as I recall. Can I ask, if these new spaces are on a hill, will bikes using them (ie angle parked) be leaning onto their stands or away from their stands. Which is to say will the uphill be to the left of the bike, causing the bike to lean off its stand, or the right of the bike allowing the bike to rest more heavily into its stand.

I've noticed that the bike park on Willis st opposite the Willis st Village provide parks on the wrong side of the road for bikes. I personally wouldn't park my bike there because in a windy city like Wellington its way too easy for a bike to be blown off its stand and the domino effect will only make matters worse.

I also recall you acknowleging places that currently have no-parking at all times to preserve sight lines, may be re-considerd for bike parking because the bike's low profile does not obstruct these sight lines. The intersection of Featherstone st and Hunter st springs to mind.

[Chocolate Boy]

Interesting to note that according to http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/bylaws/traffic.html clause 4.1 (c) and (d) both clearly indicate that a motorcycle is allowed to park at a metered park.
A metered park is where one meter controls one parking space, as opposed to the multiple meter areas, where one meter controls a number of parking spaces.
So where are those metered parks? Do any of them exist around the CBD?

[caseye]

See 6.5:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/bylaws/traffic.html
I am already working to get this removed so that motorcycles can use any Pay and Display spaces legally, or to mark Pay and Display spaces as appropriate for motorcycles only, e.g. where a car can not fit.

Special class restrictions do not always need to be stated implicitly on signs, e.g. there are many taxi and taxi stand rules that are "known" by the users but do not need to be indicated on signs. However, my view is that we should make it as easy as possible for people to park correctly so clear(er) signage would always be an improvement.

As far as I am aware, motorcycles may use Pay and Display spaces after hours when that restriction no longer applies. Conversely, cars may also use motorcycle spaces after hours as long as they are not marked as "at all times" (again, these restrictions do not need to be implicitly stated on the signs, drivers and riders are "assumed" to know all of the road rules).




The Council is not obliged to provide any parking whatsoever on the road. The fact that we do is because we understand the needs of the road users and the importance of such spaces for the network to operate effectively. I would agree that, for our democracy to operate as intended, rules must be challenged.



Your assumption is quite wrong. The other road users have rights too, and these are protected by law. Police may use discretion when dealing with protests, but plenty of people have found that not being "peaceful" may result in various forms of legal penalty. Also we are much more likely to listen to a suggestion for improvement that takes into account all of the issues that we need to be concerned about (this helps us to do our job and justifies modifying our approach), rather than a one-sided protest from a group that is just upset at a change not in their favour (this could backfire and have the effect of making things even worse).

Well done Jon,that tells me you have listened to the voices, lol from these threads I mean.
It is refreshing to see a council officer doing their best to improve a situation as opposed to as most do, simply continuing to place bigger and more expensive obstacles in the way.
Cheers.

[Jon Visser]

As previously advised, a special warden team will be going around today to audit parking. Any motorcycles found to be parked illegally will be issued with a caution. Those who have already received a previous caution for the same offence will receive a ticket.

Also as previously mentioned we're looking to develop a more comprehensive policy around the future management of motorcycles & scooters in Wellington City. We have had some surveyors interview arriving motorcycles at parking bays in the morning to identify typical habits. So far we have interviewed about 100 of the approximately 1,000 riders that commute into our city. However, we have not yet managed to capture the needs of short-term motorcycle parkers as we have not been able to locate any on the road (and typically they cannot find a park at a motorcycle bay anyway). If there is anyone on this thread that parks in Wellington City during the day for short periods of time (e.g. less than 8 hours) and is willing to answer a few brief questions could they please contact me at
Jon.Visser@wcc.govt.nz so that we can get some idea of quantities/durations and your specific needs can be considered.

[caseye]

Jon, having had the pleasure of being able to park ALL DAY! in a bike park on Lambton Quay yesterday, I'd like to say thank you again.
Only one problem could you have your wardens please give tickets to the dirty filthy construction workers who it seems regularly go and sit on someone else pride and joy and play with all the controls etc a Big Big Ticket too!
Seriously, I watched some of them doing this until I got annoyed and knocked on the widow of the Oxxy and held up my helmet, they took off quick smart.
I caught up with my good freind Brent yesterday and he tells me more of what the council is trying to do and of course who is driving this, so once more thank you.
Anyone on this site who doesn't believe that Mr Visser is trying to do his utmost FOR us can go put their head up ther collective behinds.

[Jon Visser]

Can I ask, if these new spaces are on a hill, will bikes using them (ie angle parked) be leaning onto their stands or away from their stands. Which is to say will the uphill be to the left of the bike, causing the bike to lean off its stand, or the right of the bike allowing the bike to rest more heavily into its stand.

On an uphill road, can motorcycles not park with their front wheel towards the kerb? There are no rules specifying which way a motorcycle or scooter must be oriented within the marked parking area, as long as it is entirely within that area. So our expectation is that riders would park at the angle that is safest for them (taking into consideration the slope & camber of the road and the ability to get in & out). Once the first bike is parked at a certain angle, others usually follow suit. Therefore it is really up to the riders (especially the first to arrive) to "set the trend" and it is within your ability to change that if you want.

I also recall you acknowleging places that currently have no-parking at all times to preserve sight lines, may be re-considerd for bike parking because the bike's low profile does not obstruct these sight lines. The intersection of Featherstone st and Hunter st springs to mind.

We have had a look at Featherston/Hunter as a possibility but our Chief Traffic Engineer has determined that, because of the need for service vehicles to have very short term parking on that side of the road and many people wanting to to stop for a few minutes to go to the public toilets there, it will instead be turned into a P10 Loading Zone that anyone (including motorcycles) may use. Instead we have identified a few such areas in the adjacent Panama Street that we have submitted for a traffic resolution to turn it into motorcycle parking.

[Jon Visser]

Only one problem could you have your wardens please give tickets to the dirty filthy construction workers who it seems regularly go and sit on someone else pride and joy and play with all the controls etc a Big Big Ticket too!

You will be pleased to hear that our wardens do indeed give tickets to construction workers and even our own road works crews (including excavators if registered) who park illegally and think it is OK to just put some cones around their vehicle to make it a "work site".

[Ocean1]

On an uphill road, can motorcycles not park with their front wheel towards the kerb?

Hi Jon. Generally it's a bad idea, the front wheel can easilly be nudged sideways making the bike unstable. Also, most bikes have a single (LH) rearwards pivoting stand and parking front wheel down would risk having the bike roll forward off the stand. It's generally accepted safe practice to park with the rear wheel against the gutter, and facing slightly uphill, if any.

There are risks associated with parking most bikes on a substantial slope however, they tend to fall over, especially with assistance from the local winds.

[centaurus]

Big question to you Jon regarding most bike parks in Wgtn.

Most bike parking spaces are parallel to the sidewalk, meaning that the bike's rear wheel will end up in the gutter, which in Wgtn is usually quite deep.

For scooters (that have center stand) it's not a problem but for most sport/sport-touring bikes that only have side stand, if the rear wheel is in the gutter the bike will stay almost upright being in a very big risk of toppling over when it's windy.

In most parking spaces I have to choose between having the bike too far out in the road or angle parked (wasting more space) just so I can avoid the gutter. This si an issue especially on The Terrace.

Is the WCC aware of this issue? Have you thought of any ways of dealing with this?

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Any thoughts on how to stop bikes mis-parking in the alloted bays. I don't mind a slight angle to the kerb if they are worried about wind but I've seen bikes parked at upto 45 degrees to the kerb which is just bloody selfish as it uses up space which two other bikes could use.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

I've just had a quick stroll down Willis street (heading into the CBD) between MacDonald Crescent and Boulcott Street intersections.

Can the council look into whether better use of this side of the street could be developed. On this stretch there is a loading bay, no stopping markers (about three car lengths), another loading bay (two car legnths), more no stopping markers and the a huge bus stop bay (about the length of two buses) then no stopping markers again and then finally it becomes a turn left lane.

The no stopping markers don't make sense as they are not for access and are interspersed between loading bays. Also the bus stop is huge. If the no stopping bays are for emergency services etc then why can't the over sized bus stop bay be used for this? Plus I have never actually seen a bus use this stop even though it is marked as one - It's not a night bus only stop is it (maybe I'm just being blind here)?

Not suggesting creating a huge amount of M/C parks here just asking it to be investigated whether a car length or two car be added as M/C parking?

Thanks

[Jon Visser]

Any thoughts on how to stop bikes mis-parking in the alloted bays. I don't mind a slight angle to the kerb if they are worried about wind but I've seen bikes parked at upto 45 degrees to the kerb which is just bloody selfish as it uses up space which two other bikes could use.

It looks like there is some disagreement amongst riders about use of parking bays - some appear to think that parking at an angle is best for safety and others appear to want to maximise utilisation of the space. It would be good if riders could discuss this (e.g. on this forum) rather than us coming up with our view on what riders should do.

From a design perspective, we can ensure that for bays on slopes or with wide/deep gutters we allow ample room for the size of the box. We are also trying to minimise such "deep" gutters - effectively this occurs when new layers of asphalt build up over time. We have asked for additional funding through the Long Term Council Community Plan process to "rotomill" these streets down before future resealing. Wellington actually has very low kerb heights (typically 40mm to 100mm) compared to most other cities around the world (typically 150mm to 200mm). Kerb height impacts on things such as drainage, vehicles driving on the footpath and "jaywalking" pedestrians.

[Jon Visser]

I've just had a quick stroll down Willis street (heading into the CBD) between MacDonald Crescent and Boulcott Street intersections. Can the council look into whether better use of this side of the street could be developed.

This section of Willis Street, because it is so narrow, has broken yellow lines on the side of the road where there are parking bays on the opposite side of the road. This allows room for cars to move over & pass each other.

From recollection, the bus stop exists for the Brooklyn route, which comes down Brooklyn Road, heads north up Willis Street then turns left into Lambton Quay. All other buses coming up Dixon Street bypass this part of Willis Street by going via Victoria/Manners/Willis.

This part of Willis Street (especially the north end) will be redesigned and modified as part of the project to open Manners Mall to buses.

[Jon Visser]

Hi Jon. Generally it's a bad idea, the front wheel can easilly be nudged sideways making the bike unstable. Also, most bikes have a single (LH) rearwards pivoting stand and parking front wheel down would risk having the bike roll forward off the stand. It's generally accepted safe practice to park with the rear wheel against the gutter, and facing slightly uphill, if any.

I'm not quite sure I understand your logic. What I meant to suggest was that, on a sloping stand, bikes could park such that they are oriented with their front wheel facing slightly uphill and their left hand side stand pointing towards the downhill side (i.e. rather than basing it solely on the position of the kerb). Not sure how this would make the front wheels any more prone to being "nudged" compared to any other way of parking.

[Badjelly]

On an uphill road, can motorcycles not park with their front wheel towards the kerb?

Hi Jon. Generally it's a bad idea...

I'm not quite sure I understand your logic. What I meant to suggest was that, on a sloping stand, bikes could park such that they are oriented with their front wheel facing slightly uphill and their left hand side stand pointing towards the downhill side (i.e. rather than basing it solely on the position of the kerb). Not sure how this would make the front wheels any more prone to being "nudged" compared to any other way of parking.

You've lost me completely. You originally suggested parking with the front wheel towards the kerb, or at least that's what Ocean1 took from it (as did I). Your attempt at clarification is unsuccessful, I'm afraid. We're talking about parking on a sloping road (eg east side Willis St south of Boulcott St). Do your uphill and downhill refer to the general slope of the road or to the slope due to the camber of the road, or to the local vector sum of the two?

I parked in the area in question Saturday before last. Rear wheel against kerb and bike pointing not quite perpendicular to kerb, but about 20 degrees south of that. The bike was very stable, but then, it has a centre stand.