Hone Harawira says...

[Tank]

I know some really hard working Maori who dont get acknolwedged because euopeans tell Maori no matter what they arent going to succed in life its true various users have told me the same thing "well you're Maori you wont get anywhere in life".

As a sucessful european - I dont know ANYONE who would not acknowledge someones sucess simply because the are Maori. Sucessful people tend to look at the person.

People are telling you that you wont get anywhere in life because you are not that bright - nothing to do with being Maori. You make yourself a victim because you keep blaming it on you being maori (remember the im being picked on for being maori thread) but it dosnt wash with anyone with a IQ over 30.

Grow a backbone and a pair of balls and stand up and take accountability for yourself. Until then you will be nothing in life other than another stat.

[Tank]

Mum actually told me im quarter Maori, because I found out my Dad (who carries Maori) is only half so Im a third now.

So your a 1/3rd now? WFT does your DNA change with what people are telling you?

So that makes you 2/3rds NON - Maori. Why keep calling yourself Maori then? Why not be proud of your European heritage?

[peasea]

Mum actually told me im quarter Maori, because I found out my Dad (who carries Maori) is only half so Im a third now. I always thought I was a halfcast, still goes to show Im mostly european but I am on the Maori side not for alterior motives just for justice on their par.

Its true though it is common in NZ to blaim everything on the Maori, whether statistics show its general, its still a stereotype. I know some really hard working Maori who dont get acknolwedged because euopeans tell Maori no matter what they arent going to succed in life its true various users have told me the same thing "well you're Maori you wont get anywhere in life".

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

In other words, pull your finger out of your arse, work hard and you can acheive anything. So many Maori (and others) DON'T pull their finger out and lament how hard done-by they are, demanding a handout from the Govt. (and therefore the taxpayers of New Zealand) which, if you ask me, should be abolished. No work, no pay. Fill in potholes or sweep the freakin' road, anything.

However, this has nothing to do with who was here first. Now, if you have Maori blood in you what tribe are you from?

[bogan]

Grow a backbone and a pair of balls and stand up and take accountability for yourself. Until then you will be nothing in life other than another stat.

fucking aye, life wont deal you another hand, so play the one you've got; don't use being maori as an excuse to fold.

[peasea]

Why not be proud of your European heritage?

A) He's probably after the 'sympathy vote'

and

B) There's no land package

[peasea]

fucking aye, life wont deal you another hand, so play the one you've got; don't use being maori as an excuse to fold.

Or as an excuse for anything, for that matter.

[Dean]

As a sucessful european - I dont know ANYONE who would not acknowledge someones sucess simply because the are Maori. Sucessful people tend to look at the person.

People are telling you that you wont get anywhere in life because you are not that bright - nothing to do with being Maori. You make yourself a victim because you keep blaming it on you being maori (remember the im being picked on for being maori thread) but it dosnt wash with anyone with a IQ over 30.

Grow a backbone and a pair of balls and stand up and take accountability for yourself. Until then you will be nothing in life other than another stat.

You havent even met me.
The stuff I spout off on the internet due to pressure isnt a opinion you should form of me.
I passed maths NCEA level 1 and 2, sure I got acheived out of merit and excellence but I still passed, I did well with Algebra. I did a fair bit of debating to.
Here yet again you are 'assuming' and wrong.

Im out.

[peasea]

You havent even met me.
The stuff I spout off on the internet due to pressure isnt a opinion you should form of me.
I passed maths NCEA level 1 and 2, sure I got acheived out of merit and excellence but I still passed, I did well with Algebra. I did a fair bit of debating to.
Here yet again you are 'assuming' and wrong.

Im out.

You're out all right, out of your mind. (And a master debater no doubt.)

I've just been studying all your typo's and spelling; nobody is that dumb, this is a wind-up. I'm off to prepare the venison; venison shot near the Lewis Pass on OUR (everyone's) land.

[Dave Lobster]

Polynesians are a big part of crime in New Zealand, Europeans are a big part of crime in New Zealand,

Stand in a court house for an afternoon. Count polynesians. Count europeans. Count asians. Make your own conclusions as to whom all the crime is commited by.

Asians are the biggest part of crime in New Zealand with illegal Immigration and drug trades sending drugs in asian prescription panadol type packets millions of them into Auckland every year. Creating billions selling them to customers.

Aren't all the drugs distributed by the gangs, who are predominantly polynesian?!

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

It's quite funny as the British (especially the English) get accused of living in the past quite a bit (reflecting upon the british empire even though it lost it quite a while ago now - and can't quite remember where it saw it last).

But jesus, I think NZ makes them look like an amatuers when it comes to living in the past.

As a country you seem to spend an awful lot of time, effort and money trying to resolve history - using modern day standards.

In past jobs I have had to examine events from the past. One rule I have always put in place is to avoid "applying modern standards to historic practice" when forming an opinion of whether the action adhered to principles. In simple terms this means not judging what was done 1, 5 or 10 years ago and comparing it to the same outcome if it had happened today. I think that NZers fall into the trap of over thinking the "what if" and hence why you all have differing opinions of "what should have happened".

If NZ (as a whole) spent the same amount of time and effort looking to improve the economy/ society that they put into trying to work out "what happened? did they lose out? what if? he's now dead so who should we pay? how much should we pay? and so on" then you would see much greater benefit to all of NZ.

With all this treaty settlement stuff you are just moving the money around within NZ - surely the time would be much better spent making NZ richer/ better - for the benefit of all?

By the way this preaching session comes from one of those land theiving englishmen who go around pointing muskets at everyone (apparantly we do that) who also wants to apologise (one thing we English definately do do) if anyone gets offended by it.

[Mikkel]

Yeh im sure the English really did well with the muskets, but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on also, now that I could go on a whole nother description. Like Maori's hiding in underground thrush with Muskets at the ready, Maori in tree's unseen by thousands of soliders crossing through, the patter of warroiors stalk them but they cant find them.

Trading muskets to ferocious stone-age tribes in the South Sea might, at a glance, seem imprudent.

However, with them not having the technology (and resources) to make new bullets and gun-powder - and being fairly far from the European market - it might actually not be such a bad idea when you think about it.

The Maoris should just be very thankful that a humanitarian revolution had taken place in Europe in the years between the colonization of America and the colonization of NZ. Otherwise, they might be living in reservations today. Just look at Australia which was colonized a mere hundred years before NZ - the aboriginals aren't doing too well these days.
Don't get me wrong, I am not at all applauding what happened in America and Australia - just saying that the maori could have been a lot worse off if Abel Tasman had been a decent salesman.

[motor_mayhem]

Dean et al,

I would very much like you to consider this, that the issue being originally raised in this thread is not actually to do with what happened in 1840 or the close preceding years, it is about how one individual ripped off a country in 2009 and then proceeded to abuse some of the people he ripped off and attempt to make claims that he personally was entitled to do it, and still believes he is. I am not going to delve into the treaty because frankly I am a software developer, not a historian and I very much doubt I could consider myself well informed after choosing 2-3 articles from a google search and reading them. Remembering that the money he took was from all tax payers, not a select group, and he was supposed to be representing the whole country on that trip, not a select few, what I would say to people who would vote for Hone is to ask if you think Hone Harawira's interests lie with the country or even the maori people, or do Hone Harawira's interests lie mostly in what could benefit Hone Harawira?


ps apologies for text wall

[McJim]

How come I have a world view that sees a multitude of nationalities and within that multitude lots of individual people, some good, some bad but Hone Hariwera can only see Maori (All of them good and if they have a criminal record then even better!) and non Maori (regardless of trade or history a motherf*cking land rapist)? Is he not bright enough to see the shades of good and bad in everyone? I'm not raping land and I certainly wouldn't F*ck Hone's mum, even with someone else cock (although I suspect Hone does - he has a strange relationship with his mother doesn't he?) and yet I feel that his comments and ire is directed at me somehow.

Most Maori I have spoken to disown the idiot anyway so I suspect his time in office is numbered.

[davereid]

Firstly, on the 26 September 1907 New Zealand became a dominion in its own right.

At that time, all New Zealanders had the right to vote, and our house of representatives had "passed a motion respectfully requesting that His Majesty the King "take such steps as he may consider necessary" to change the designation of New Zealand from the "Colony of New Zealand" to the "Dominion of New Zealand".

Interestingly, Maori had the right to vote before many european, as the maori seats were created in 1867, however europeans could not vote until 1879 unless they were landowners.

Anyway, the point is, that at the time the domnion was formed, we all became New Zealanders, with equal rights and universal suffrage.

Maori had become New Zealanders, New Zealanders with maori ancestry, but New Zealanders nonetheless.

This didnt mean that we could ignore land confiscation, and other wrongs. But the crown was now represented by our own elected parliament.

Who was not dealing anymore with the natives. They were dealing with New Zealanders, who individually, or as a group had legitimate land ownership grivences, that should of, and could of been dealt with through the courts.

Our fault today, is acceping a grievance from "Maori" when in fact we are dealing with New Zealanders.

[Swoop]

As for the carving; no doubt about the talent involved, whether it was in wood or in greenstone. Interesting that they didn't have the same designs in their homeland though. I wonder where they got their ideas.

You will find a large amount of similarities with traditional Taiwanese carving.