Actually, Swoop, in the interests of accuracy, I think you'll find that NCEA was originally proposed by the National Government that preceded that particular labour government...Originally Posted by Swoop
Grumpy Old Bastard
Actually, Swoop, in the interests of accuracy, I think you'll find that NCEA was originally proposed by the National Government that preceded that particular labour government...
. “No pleasure is worth giving up for two more years in a rest home.” Kingsley Amis
Forum whore
I think its good, the point of children not being graded is stupid, if you suck at maths reading etc then it should be transparent for the child to see and the parent to see, currently when we get our boys school reports they dont mean shit as they are so PC " Jonny is a good boy with great abilities and is improving through the year" what the fuck does that mean?? Gauging against the national average is better.
When I was a kid it was 50% over you passed, under you failed.........simple easy and transparent.
Ive run out of fucks to give
Double shot!!
The only solution to any problem, is action taken to resolve it.
The bottom line is, you or I can't do shit about it, except what is our back yards. The govt or the schools' actions are irrelevant. Go and organise you own destiny and take ownership of it.
Steve
"I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
"read what Steve says. He's right."
"What Steve said pretty much summed it up."
"I did axactly as you said and it worked...!!"
"Wow, Great advise there DB."
WTB: Hyosung bikes or going or not.
Night rider
I was shocked to hear a teacher say on TV "We don't want to introduce comptition".
Well I'm sorry, but the whole world is competitive. The best performers generally get the best rewards, so anything we can do to make our children perform better must be good. In odrer to improve their performance the teacher and the parents must know where the pupils are at any point in time so that efforts can be focussed where needed. Testing pupils against a standard will show where the national average is and hence identify how a pupil is performing against that average.
As for attracting teachers to low decile schools, they already receive more funding per pupil than higher decile schools so that they can pay better teachers more. Lets bring in those league tables so the schools themselves can set challenges and aim to improve.
Time to ride
Forum whore
Are the requirements that tough? After the first year of school a child should know how many apples they have if they start with 5 and someone gives them 4 more. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me...
gee wizzz
Wth 5 kids you can imagine this is something fairly close to y heart.
Putting it bluntly. The old system sucked. I'm not much for fancy words n stuff but a child needs to leave primary school able to read,wright and do arithmatic. Being even more blunt FUCK the scaled against other kids bullshit.
Its really simple --at this age Johnny needs to be able to achieve -THIS. At this Age he needs to achieveThat.
No fucking around.
My oldest is year 10 this year and he's getting marks for a good attitude in class FFS. I couldn't give a shit about his attitude (for the sake of this discussion) I care if he can do maths and if not where he needs work.
To see a life newly created.To watch it grow and prosper. Isn't that the greatest gift a human being can be given?
gee wizzz
the requirement for year 1 WAS that lil johnny can count to 20 not actually addn subtract.
To see a life newly created.To watch it grow and prosper. Isn't that the greatest gift a human being can be given?
Highway Biker
This must have been the general comment at the end of your kids report. What don't you understand about that statement?
1 Jonny is focussed and a well behaved student.(good boy)
2 He has demonstrated clearly that he understands what he is learning and can put it to practice. (great abilities)
3 And what don't you understand about' improving through the year'?!
If you want it spelt out to you, book a time to sit down with the class teacher and have them go into the nuts & bolts about Jonny learning at school.
What would you learn about just reading a report on leather jackets made at a certain factory? Wouldn't you want to go there and check it out first hand. See work in progress and check the materials being used. Get a feel for the work place by talking to the workers.
How is school any different? Get in there and make your own informed judgements.
Aio ki te Aorangi
Why not?
Spoken like a true humanitarian, a forward thinking human being... I see a great future in politics for you young man!!!
IMHO any changes to the school curriculum and teaching practices that haven't involved some form of consultation with those on the front line i.e. head master consults his staff, compiles a simple report and sends it through to MED for collation and implementation, is doomed to failure. If only for the reason that the teachers, i.e. those that do the actual job, haven't been allowed to voice their opinion as to the best way to test THEIR students... after all they have up to date relevant knowledge and experience of how the kids are actually learning, what's working, what isn't etc...
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
Night rider
I'm with Quasi on this one.
Great abilities? But is he using those abilities or is he just doing what is needed?
Improving? So hes able to do one problem more at the end of the year than at the beginning.
When my kids were at school I hated this subjective reporting. Give me a number, a measurement. Jonny scored 88% on this subject and is placed 2nd in class; Jonny scored 63% on this subject and is 12th in class; Jonny scored 34% in this subject and is 28th in class. Simple and easily understood.
Time to ride
Forum whore
I think personally I have sat down with my kids teachers 4 times in the last year, however this isnt a personal discussion is it?
The above wasnt an excerpt from the actual report but a general idea as to how it usually goes, reasonably accurate, so I read it and yes on the face of it sounds okay doesnt it, but then you ask your 15 year old to read something and they struggle, or ask him to work out a simple math equation and when they cant do it you are surprised because of the B.S in the reports.
Current reports are bollocks, I want to know if he can or if he cant, period, Im not interested in the flowery crap that riddles the current reports given out........thats my point.
I want a grade, pass or fail, simple...........P.C crap is not helpful in anyway shape or form, nor is the mentality of alot of the teaching profession, for example a princepal recently said at a teachers parent meeting I quote "Some kids are not good academically which is fine" WTF, no its not fine at all and basically said to all the kids present its ok not to be able to understand maths or english etc, utter B.S
The dumming down of our school system has had its Day !! the acceptance of mediocre performance is stupid and makes for a stupid society................welcome to NZ
Ive run out of fucks to give
gee wizzz
Quasi Mate I get your point and also have the same frustrations.
My view is that its not about competition at school its about meeting a standard.
So for example by halfway through year 3 johhny needs to be able to read to this level do math to this level and wright this much.
if Johhny hasn't acheived this then Johnny needs remedial work at school so rather than poi poi dancing or music class he does remedial reading/math etc.
The joke of high school where if not enough kids passthe math test so we adjust it down reads to me as -Ohh we fucked up this year so we'll fudge the results so half pass
To see a life newly created.To watch it grow and prosper. Isn't that the greatest gift a human being can be given?
Fair weather rider
Having skimmed one of last years ERO report it is alarming to see comments like "However, in some classes, poor quality teaching disadvantaged children who therefore did not develop or acquire essential early reading knowledge and skills." Oddly this wasn't mentioned in the Conclusions of the same report...maybe they didn't consider 10% of New Zealands teachers being inadequate in this area worth mentioning further?!
As for testing standards I agree that would be preferable but struggle to see how two such opposed groups would agree on what they should be. However do any of these proposed standards take into account issues such as poor nutrition in low decile schools? If they did would the government fund a canteen in these area's to ensure socioeconomically disadvantaged kids have the best opportunity to learn - and should they?
It's a tough debate...I'm not in favour of unions protecting under performing teachers, and believe there should be standards, but also believe there needs to be some allowance for other factors at play other than individual teacher's performance.
"And if I claim to be a wise man, It surely means that I don't know"
Fair weather rider
On that my niece had her first year at university last year, and was shocked to be assessed on her own ability, rather than being graded relative to her classmates. In other words she got a 'B' but was used to being better than her classmates so therefore didn't need to achieve higher. I told her "Welcome to the real world".
Isn't this what national standards are about? Actually making kids strive to be better and parents knowing where their kids are at.
"And if I claim to be a wise man, It surely means that I don't know"
Wearing Hi-Viz Black.
It is the fact that it is not working. Post #28 has some relevant comments...
9 years refers to the union influence in the liarbour party and how things have been running over that (long) time. A look at the school leavers does not inspire confidence that their taxes will be paying for our retirements...
Huh? I am all in favour of changing the current system. I also like the way Tolley is going about it as well... "Here are your standards to work to". IF that was put to a think-tank, then a committee, then another committee, then a working party, it would be watered down to something that was crap and didn't work... just like what we have now.
NCEA isn't as fabulous as they would have you believe and the whole education pipeline needs a revamp.
TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
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