Anti-1080 ecoterrorists

[ynot slow]

Have mixed views on 1080,sure is best way to maybe erradicate pests in hard to reach areas.The old days of trapping and shooting for skins are gone,along with government culling(pest destruction dept).Have relatives who have farmed around the Egmont National park boundary,they'd often shoot and trap on their property,but also had baits landing on their land,they were told when the drops were happening so shifted stock etc,no problems.

Have noticed the birdlife return to the park since 1080 dropped when staying at lower level huts on Mt Egmont,and vegetation return,so yes the drop worked,but is it the best way I'm undecided.

[T.W.R]

It's always entertaining with the anti-1080 nutters quoting the weight in tonnes of how much 1080 will be dropped when the reality is that in each bait dropped there's only 0.15% of total bait weight that is actually 1080.

[Scottie]

I agree with Hitcher 1080 is the best tool to protrect our biodiversity - extinction is FOREVER

[Ronin]

C'mon man, while it may have been damaged it hardly met the definition of "decimated" or "dying" as was previously posted.

Emotive/alarmist speech does neither side any favours as it's too easy to refute and stifles discussion. It's all too easy to read one small snippet and arrive at a conclusion before all the facts are known. I'm happy to admitI know feck all about the issue but I'm interetsed in hearing more, hence I'll sit back and entertain arguments that seem sound and reasoned.....and ignore the hyperbole ridden exaggerations.

Fair comment but here are some areas which have been very badly affected. I'm not a great fan of 1080 but given our terrain and the pest being targetted I feel that trying to control using culling just will not be effective enough. With targetted disease vectors still away off (and of unproven value) then we have to do something.

[Ronin]

It's always entertaining with the anti-1080 nutters quoting the weight in tonnes of how much 1080 will be dropped when the reality is that in each bait dropped there's only 0.15% of total bait weight that is actually 1080.

Didn't know that. Interesting.

[rainman]

The fact that useful things can be made from possum by-products is a red herring, said he typing this whilst wearing his merino-possum jersey, and should not be taken seriously as any benefits are significantly outweighed by the costs.

Surely only true if you don't count the environmental costs of possum destruction?

I think its a case of those who live in the regions you mention having a say. Isn't this what MMP is all about ?

Um, no.

A few trappers not many could sort the TB problem out quite easily.

Is it a case of few good trappers/shooters rather than lots of less perfect ones? Just we have this big unemployment issue at the moment, and on my own I could probably raise 4 or 5 guys who could competently be trained to to shoot possums, rather than be out of work...

[Gone Burger]

I am in two minds about councils using 1080. I live in Upper Hutt City and our council use 1080 happily and frequently. I also live in a rural area surrounded by native bush and farm land. The 1080 operations that they have done out our way have been incredibly successful and the possum population is quickly being controlled more as the years go on. They are about to start their first operation out here for the year. So the farmers as (generally) happy, and the results are very good for the wildlife and native bush.

However, I am also a dog owner which is where my other opinion about it comes into play. They have in the past done aerial drops of the pallets, on neighboring council land, and also private farms and properties that owners have given permission for. Last year the park only minutes up the road from me was covered in the stuff. So sure, don't take the dogs there. But them the river behind our house became too dangerous for the dogs, and we were then told that we couldn't walk them on our road at all. We could see the pallets everywhere. And there have been quite a few deaths of dogs in upper hutt parks and river beds as pallets and carcases have been washed down that was with heavy rains.

So, for 6 months of the year, my dogs are locked in my property, with very little chance to get out in our beautiful surrounding area. There is also a huge concern with the next aerial drop that our own property might be affected. They have been known for "dropping"outside of their proposed areas, and it was only last year I believe that the Kaitoke water catchment plant got contaminated by 1080 and was unsafe to use for over 6 months. I would have to check my facts on that, but it was something along those lines.

Still in two minds - I know it works brilliantly for controlling the possum populations and that is just something that we HAVE to continue to try and control, but as a dog owner, it sucks! I guess there are always pros and cons to most situations.

[T.W.R]

Truth of the matter is that district councils haven't got the authority to stop the likes of 1080 drops, regional councils have the authority

[JimO]

Speaking of drunk inbred hillbilly's - my firearms licence arrived last week - sweeeet!

[Mully]

Is there a reason that we can't use bait stations for 1080 instead of just dropping it? Surely hiring some "Rangers", gettng them a Hilux and sending them out to refill bait stations and pick up any dead ones (with the fur going to garment makers) would solve most of the the debate?

Agreed that some terrain is challenging, but I imagine some people (not me, like fuck me) would enjoy being paid to tramp into these places to fill bait stations.

Actually, have we had a beneficiary bashing thread lately? Can we hire some lazy fucking benes to go out and do it?

[spacemonkey]

Comes back to cost Mully, the amount of bait the average tramping type could carry 30-40km OFF THE TRAIL and how long it would take in hours even at minimum wage would come nowhere near the bang for your tax buck that aerial 1080 drops get.
Possum population is estimated to be around 70 million 38% of which have TB and are spread over some 10,000,000. hectares, to make a dent in those numbers would pretty much impossible using hunting and trapping..... Mind you I'm sure ammunition manufacturers would be ever so pleased if we did try to hunt them all.

Katiepie That's news to me and I'd be skeptical due to the fact that 1080 breaks down in water. To get a positive test for 1080 they have to take the water sample within a few days (hours in the case of running water) so 6 months?
I can see a hysterical over reacting uninformed council doing that, but there would be no scientific basis for it.

[Winston001]

I've been puzzled about why 1080 is mostly used in NZ and very little in other countries, so did a bit of research. The reason very simply is that NZ is virtually unique in the world for having no native mammals (ok, there is a bat). The other place with no mammals and which is a world heritage site is the Galapagos Islands. And yes, they use 1080 there among Darwins Finches and other rare birds. It wouldn't be used if it posed a threat.

So it is an appropriate and effective poison for this country. The Australian possum does serious damage to our bush, much of it in the top layers which is unseen. Their effect is to kill fresh young foliage and flowers which should seed and provide food for birds. The damage is best seen from a helicopter.

As for bio-controls such as an engineered bacteria or virus, certainly science can create one. Just recently a sterility hormone for possums was announced.

There are three problems:

1. Delivery vector. Bacteria and viruses can be spread by the wind but the percentage is poor. Most die quickly from sunlight. So scientists have to find a delivery method for getting the bio-creature from possum to possum. Usually a parasite such as a small flea which lives with the animal is chosen but its got to tolerate the microbe and that's a problem. Finding the right insect isn't easy.

2. Ecological risk - no-one wants to find out too late that the microbe just loves tuis so the testing period before release is critical.

3. Australia....our big brash cousin. Possums are protected over there. If NZ engineers a microbe then we better have a deadly toxin to kill it, ready at the same time. Otherwise Oz will ban all imports from NZ and spray all our flights not to mention the nasty political stuff which would happen. They don't need us and certainly wouldn't want our bio-terror.

[Coldrider]

I think that a lot of the problem is 'country' decisions are being made by 'town' people who have little to no understanding, and just think that 1080 is not what they would want outside their home.

A educated person who understands the problems would not come to the same conclusion.

I have to totally agree here (just this once)

[Tank]

I have to totally agree here (just this once)

fuck - you ok man??????

[Gone Burger]

Katiepie That's news to me and I'd be skeptical due to the fact that 1080 breaks down in water. To get a positive test for 1080 they have to take the water sample within a few days (hours in the case of running water) so 6 months?
I can see a hysterical over reacting uninformed council doing that, but there would be no scientific basis for it.

I stand corrected, thank you. I thought it was longer at the time but it seems it was only closed for a couple of months. I remember reading the artical in the local paper, and how low the level of the twin lakes was getting as a result...


"Upper Hutt: 1080 drop closes Water Supply

Wellington Regional Council has stopped taking water from a catchment area north of Upper Hutt because of a 1080 poison drop.
Helicopters dropped the baits on Friday in parts of the Kaitoke Regional Park and the Akatarawa saddle area to control possums.
Half the water supply for the Wellington urban area comes from the Hutt Water Collection Area, drawn at the Kaitoke weir.
Water for Upper Hutt, Lower Hutt, Wellington and Porirua cities is now being drawn from the water storage lakes at Kaitoke.
Taking water from the Hutt water collection area will resume when the Medical Officer of Health gives the all clear."

Still, I will continue to have my 2 views on this one... Might do some more reserch on it myself. Always good to know the facts huh before blabbering on about a topic being full of hot air