Pre89 Senior YSS Suspension FZR1000, Vic R1

[roogazza]

The SVR is on holiday at the moment , So will continue to enjoy winding you post classic guys up anyway for the meantime. Hoepfully the YSS gear will be good enough to even out the GSXR Suzuki boys 300cc + advantage ?

You forty yet ? retirement can't be that far off, classics are the thin edge of the wedge you know ? Still if ya can do it easy why not I suppose. lol G.

[codgyoleracer]

You forty yet ? retirement can't be that far off, classics are the thin edge of the wedge you know ? Still if ya can do it easy why not I suppose. lol G.

40 !, - Gee , i will definatley take that as a compliment :-), missed you atthe party the other day , but did get to see a vid of some scratchy ole fella with an injured body & an old soozooki bandit, keepin up with some chubby fella on a 184hp spacerocket......... :-)

P.S - are you 50 yet ?

[roogazza]

40 !, - Gee , i will definatley take that as a compliment :-), missed you atthe party the other day , but did get to see a vid of some scratchy ole fella with an injured body & an old soozooki bandit, keepin up with some chubby fella on a 184hp spacerocket......... :-)

P.S - are you 50 yet ?

I didn't think at the time he'd play that vid forever when he made it. Should have put the camera on the front of his ? (but then you wouldn't see anyone !!!!!) lol . 61 , I think it's caught up with me. G.

[Robert Taylor]

C'mon Robert..................don't hold back............tell us how ya really feel

Yep both eyes wide open. If anyone reading this thread thinks its as easy as getting any XYZ brand out of Asia custom built and performing perfectly straight up ( especially when the builder has limited capacity and experience ) then they think wrong. This is not sour grapes, its reality.
Long standing companies that have had a long history of being at the sharp end of road racing at the very highest levels, have huge R&D facilities and ALSO ( very importantly ) have lots of archival and WELL DEVELOPED AND TESTED spec cards for shock absorbers for period bikes give customers a much better chance of having a shock built that is very close to being on the money straight up. FACT.
We have seen this now 4 times in recent months with a particular Asian brand, 2 in road racing that just were not working, we replaced with custom built Ohlins straight off the ( you guessed it ) archival well tested spec cards. 2 also in vintage MX, one that had been custom built at the service centre in Europe for that brand and it was just appalling, it would have sent the guy to hospital in short order. This is the sort of BS that is going on and only what we are aware of thats come to us.
Companies that have cheaper products invariably also have much less in the way of R&D and frankly, it shows.

This is not like selling fine crystal or headlight bulbs , out the door, its done and everyone is happy. Shock absorber specs are very individual and specific to the specific bike model in terms of the motion ratio that the swingarm and linkage applies to it, also the base spring rate choice. The very top companies exhaustively laboratory test suspension units with equipment that even mid range suspension manufacturers can only dream about, they also exhaustively test them on a cross section of tracks and roads. For them ''good enough'' is never good enough

That does reflect in the end price, and that is true for the cheaper shocks.

Its easy when you are trying to prove something to concentrate on one or two customers and easier again if he is a top racer ( not meaning to take the wind out of your sails Glen, your abilities are undoubted ) but the real test is when you have a few out there, it can all fall to pieces if you cannot attend to or frankly are too lazy to attend to all of your customers needs when they require you. That can happen in dramatic fashion with very unhappy customers, as happened at Timaru during the Road Race Nationals. When customers spend a lot of money and are spun the line ''i can do it better'' but it doesnt actually happen then that really sucks.

We ( CKT ) dont always get it right but have not had any dramatic scenarios and will do the hard yards to keep working at it if there is an individual setup issue. What I am thankful for with our product(s) is that the factories are at a much higher level and what we are sent is subject to a LOT more testing and development prior to being released. Plus they are right at the forefront of technology, leaders, not followers / copiers.

[Tony.OK]

Oh heck!..............well I guess I did ask

Will catch up with ya next Fri Robert? Need to get this front end sorted a little betterer.

[SS90]

Yep both eyes wide open. If anyone reading this thread thinks its as easy as getting any XYZ brand out of Asia custom built and performing perfectly straight up ( especially when the builder has limited capacity and experience ) then they think wrong. This is not sour grapes, its reality.
Long standing companies that have had a long history of being at the sharp end of road racing at the very highest levels, have huge R&D facilities and ALSO ( very importantly ) have lots of archival and WELL DEVELOPED AND TESTED spec cards for shock absorbers for period bikes give customers a much better chance of having a shock built that is very close to being on the money straight up. FACT.
We have seen this now 4 times in recent months with a particular Asian brand, 2 in road racing that just were not working, we replaced with custom built Ohlins straight off the ( you guessed it ) archival well tested spec cards. 2 also in vintage MX, one that had been custom built at the service centre in Europe for that brand and it was just appalling, it would have sent the guy to hospital in short order. This is the sort of BS that is going on and only what we are aware of thats come to us.
Companies that have cheaper products invariably also have much less in the way of R&D and frankly, it shows.

This is not like selling fine crystal or headlight bulbs , out the door, its done and everyone is happy. Shock absorber specs are very individual and specific to the specific bike model in terms of the motion ratio that the swingarm and linkage applies to it, also the base spring rate choice. The very top companies exhaustively laboratory test suspension units with equipment that even mid range suspension manufacturers can only dream about, they also exhaustively test them on a cross section of tracks and roads. For them ''good enough'' is never good enough

That does reflect in the end price, and that is true for the cheaper shocks.

Its easy when you are trying to prove something to concentrate on one or two customers and easier again if he is a top racer ( not meaning to take the wind out of your sails Glen, your abilities are undoubted ) but the real test is when you have a few out there, it can all fall to pieces if you cannot attend to or frankly are too lazy to attend to all of your customers needs when they require you. That can happen in dramatic fashion with very unhappy customers, as happened at Timaru during the Road Race Nationals. When customers spend a lot of money and are spun the line ''i can do it better'' but it doesnt actually happen then that really sucks.

We ( CKT ) dont always get it right but have not had any dramatic scenarios and will do the hard yards to keep working at it if there is an individual setup issue. What I am thankful for with our product(s) is that the factories are at a much higher level and what we are sent is subject to a LOT more testing and development prior to being released. Plus they are right at the forefront of technology, leaders, not followers / copiers.

The issue is Robert, that in NZ, the concept of "quality come with price" remains a foreign concept.

The "can do Kiwi attitude" is a great thing, but such attitudes do not cover all situations.

"tall Poppy syndrome" is also an issue (everywhere in the world, but it sadly is strong in NZ).

I read (spurious) claims of "as good/better than Öhlins" from many suspension manufacturers, but, when all is said and done, even at the highest level there is, Honda (who own Showa), just changed to Öhlins on Danny Pedrosa's bike.

Now, competition brings technology (as do wars), and if a suspension company was to appear that was to actually push a specialist company like Öhlins, then I am sure you would welcome the challenge.

Personally, I have experience with YSS suspension, and, to date, none of it is good.

I am not saying that won't change, but, like I say, to date, it is not good.

Suspension units completely worn out after 3000KM (road), and suppliers totally unwilling to do anything for you.

I am no suspension expert, far from it, but, I do build high performance two strokes for a living, and I know quality of material when I see it.

So far, to date, YSS shock bodies seem (to me) to be made out cheap material, and, oddly, the price is not really that much lower than European brands.

My concern is how they market themselves "World class suspension" is the phrase they use.

They are made "in Asia", and, in time, this will be better than it is today, but, the fact is, the YSS stuff is lower quality than they claim it to be.

[SWERVE]

Like your first few comments ss90......... spot on. Have to battle those attitudes at work everyday. And the cheap/"she,ll be alright" version will ALWAYS come back and bite ya.

[PeeJay]

Yep both eyes wide open. If anyone reading this thread thinks its as easy as getting any XYZ brand out of Asia custom built and performing perfectly straight up ( especially when the builder has limited capacity and experience ) then they think wrong. This is not sour grapes, its reality.
Long standing companies that have had a long history of being at the sharp end of road racing at the very highest levels, have huge R&D facilities and ALSO ( very importantly ) have lots of archival and WELL DEVELOPED AND TESTED spec cards for shock absorbers for period bikes give customers a much better chance of having a shock built that is very close to being on the money straight up. FACT.
We have seen this now 4 times in recent months with a particular Asian brand, 2 in road racing that just were not working, we replaced with custom built Ohlins straight off the ( you guessed it ) archival well tested spec cards. 2 also in vintage MX, one that had been custom built at the service centre in Europe for that brand and it was just appalling, it would have sent the guy to hospital in short order. This is the sort of BS that is going on and only what we are aware of thats come to us.
Companies that have cheaper products invariably also have much less in the way of R&D and frankly, it shows.

This is not like selling fine crystal or headlight bulbs , out the door, its done and everyone is happy. Shock absorber specs are very individual and specific to the specific bike model in terms of the motion ratio that the swingarm and linkage applies to it, also the base spring rate choice. The very top companies exhaustively laboratory test suspension units with equipment that even mid range suspension manufacturers can only dream about, they also exhaustively test them on a cross section of tracks and roads. For them ''good enough'' is never good enough

That does reflect in the end price, and that is true for the cheaper shocks.

Its easy when you are trying to prove something to concentrate on one or two customers and easier again if he is a top racer ( not meaning to take the wind out of your sails Glen, your abilities are undoubted ) but the real test is when you have a few out there, it can all fall to pieces if you cannot attend to or frankly are too lazy to attend to all of your customers needs when they require you. That can happen in dramatic fashion with very unhappy customers, as happened at Timaru during the Road Race Nationals. When customers spend a lot of money and are spun the line ''i can do it better'' but it doesnt actually happen then that really sucks.

We ( CKT ) dont always get it right but have not had any dramatic scenarios and will do the hard yards to keep working at it if there is an individual setup issue. What I am thankful for with our product(s) is that the factories are at a much higher level and what we are sent is subject to a LOT more testing and development prior to being released. Plus they are right at the forefront of technology, leaders, not followers / copiers.

What can I say?
Sour Grapes? you said it
What are you afraid of Robert?
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" or in this case Robert doth protest too much.
Do you think you are the only person who knows anything?
Do you think everyone is so stupid you have to save them from themselves?
You now have 4 examples of "that Asian brand" which just dont work
And the veiled attack on one of their service agents
Whats next, full page ads in the local motorcycle press?
Are YSS really taking so many sales from you that you are reduced to employing pysops techniques to halt this evil?

You are an Ohlins evangalist, Ohlins equivalent to Jerry Falwell, banging on about it every chance you get.
YSS is the DEVIL incarnate and is out to entrap the poor and misguided unless you save them.
"Father, oops I mean Robert, forgive them, for they know not what they do"

and SS90
suck up all you like but you arent telling the whole truth about your YSS experience are you
Were you a tall poppy before you were cut down to size by the great unwashed?
Tall poppy syndrome? the only people to complain about tall poppy syndrome are thin skinned crybabies with an overinflated sense of their own worth, who dont know what to do when some one calls them an idiot.
I could be wrong of course, its happened before, once.
have a nice day!

[slowpoke]

Tall poppy syndrome? the only people to complain about tall poppy syndrome are thin skinned crybabies with an overinflated sense of their own worth, who dont know what to do when some one calls them an idiot.

What a load of shite. Dragging other people down doesn't make you any taller.

[sinfull]

Wow ! Ya win a race or two and look what happens, ya thread gets taken over and ya bike gets picked to bits ! Thats it, i'm buying a harley ! Heaven forbid that i should ever win a race !



Oh by the way, nice riding Glen !

[schrodingers cat]

Robert,
at your hourly charge out rate, how much time = money have you devoted to slamming YSS/promoting Ohlins in this thread?

Is this an effective spend given the potential albeit target market?

By your actions haven't you drawn additional attention to the brand than otherwise would have occured?

Answer in less than 30 words (if you can)

[Robert Taylor]

Robert,
at your hourly charge out rate, how much time = money have you devoted to slamming YSS/promoting Ohlins in this thread?

Is this an effective spend given the potential albeit target market?

By your actions haven't you drawn additional attention to the brand than otherwise would have occured?

Answer in less than 30 words (if you can)

Well it certainly seems that SS90 ( I have no idea who he is ) has reinforced that there is some substance to my ''evangelical crusade''. Another dissatisfied user that has analysed things a little further behind the facade and has had a less than satisfactory experience.

Ive seen this with rear drive chains, theres a lot of stuff made in mainland Asia, may on the face of it look the same but I beg to say that the tolerances and material quality is not as good, neither is the longevity.

Similarly where I see someone incapable of looking after ALL of his customers properly ( instead of a couple of race winners ) and ends up giving the product that I distribute a bad name Im not going to sweep it under the carpet.

No apologies for daring to say it as it actually is. Caveat emptor.

[codgyoleracer]

Yep both eyes wide open. If anyone reading this thread thinks its as easy as getting any XYZ brand out of Asia custom built and performing perfectly straight up ( especially when the builder has limited capacity and experience ) then they think wrong. This is not sour grapes, its reality.
Long standing companies that have had a long history of being at the sharp end of road racing at the very highest levels, have huge R&D facilities and ALSO ( very importantly ) have lots of archival and WELL DEVELOPED AND TESTED spec cards for shock absorbers for period bikes give customers a much better chance of having a shock built that is very close to being on the money straight up. FACT.
We have seen this now 4 times in recent months with a particular Asian brand, 2 in road racing that just were not working, we replaced with custom built Ohlins straight off the ( you guessed it ) archival well tested spec cards. 2 also in vintage MX, one that had been custom built at the service centre in Europe for that brand and it was just appalling, it would have sent the guy to hospital in short order. This is the sort of BS that is going on and only what we are aware of thats come to us.
Companies that have cheaper products invariably also have much less in the way of R&D and frankly, it shows.

This is not like selling fine crystal or headlight bulbs , out the door, its done and everyone is happy. Shock absorber specs are very individual and specific to the specific bike model in terms of the motion ratio that the swingarm and linkage applies to it, also the base spring rate choice. The very top companies exhaustively laboratory test suspension units with equipment that even mid range suspension manufacturers can only dream about, they also exhaustively test them on a cross section of tracks and roads. For them ''good enough'' is never good enough

That does reflect in the end price, and that is true for the cheaper shocks.

Its easy when you are trying to prove something to concentrate on one or two customers and easier again if he is a top racer ( not meaning to take the wind out of your sails Glen, your abilities are undoubted ) but the real test is when you have a few out there, it can all fall to pieces if you cannot attend to or frankly are too lazy to attend to all of your customers needs when they require you. That can happen in dramatic fashion with very unhappy customers, as happened at Timaru during the Road Race Nationals. When customers spend a lot of money and are spun the line ''i can do it better'' but it doesnt actually happen then that really sucks.

We ( CKT ) dont always get it right but have not had any dramatic scenarios and will do the hard yards to keep working at it if there is an individual setup issue. What I am thankful for with our product(s) is that the factories are at a much higher level and what we are sent is subject to a LOT more testing and development prior to being released. Plus they are right at the forefront of technology, leaders, not followers / copiers.

Well, Well , Well, - all very interesting.
In a previous post on this thread i complimented Roberts Taylors products and services as one of the best in the industry - and i still vey much stand by that. However after the above i feel the need to explain further on why i have found the YSS product and their servicing to be more than adequate for my race uses.

To claim that my choice of service agent (Kerry Dukic) Dukic Suspension is QUOTE RT "has limited capacity and experience" - is somewhat perplexing considering that Dukic is the suspension tuner that fettled & won this years 600cc production championship and also my last two F3 championships.

As far as build quality is concerned - and the claim that this equipment is imminently "about to fall to pieces" - well, all i can say is that currently i have had no issues thus far- And even if we did - i have the utmost confidence in the YSS New Zealand importer and their service agent to sort any issues that arise. I have seen their investment in stock and parts and have also experienced their custom parts service and supply times - and they are as good as anyones in New Zealand.

Price !, :-) , - I own a company that imports millions of dollars of specialty components from all over the world (and we make a point of visiting all of our suppliers on a regular basis). I know for a fact people that some very very high quality products are manufactured in some of the poorer countries of this world. Just because they are poor doesnt mean they are stupid !, and they have access to world-class manufacturing machinery just like many other countries.
Often manufacturing costs are lower simply because their overhead costs (labour, Governmental control, local freight, export freight cost, limited union involvement, local raw materials) - all these things add up to reducing the cost of end products - and doesnt always mean greatly reduced quality.

To repeat - i am pleased with my YSS experience thus far, and hopefully there is more to come !, My advice to any racer or rider is to keep an open mind and consider all options when fitting any parts / consumables to your bike. This would included tyre options, brakepads, chains, Oils, Suspension, Fuels etc etc, new ideas or more efficient methods do evolve and appear on the market and sometimes these are worth considering.

Glen Williams

[codgyoleracer]

Wow ! Ya win a race or two and look what happens, ya thread gets taken over and ya bike gets picked to bits ! Thats it, i'm buying a harley ! Heaven forbid that i should ever win a race !



Oh by the way, nice riding Glen !

HaHa , its all good stuff !, RT and I get on bloody well truth be known ! - but ihave dared to wander out from the blue and gold umbrella ! :-), - has been an interesting & pleasing ride so far

[Robert Taylor]

Well, Well , Well, - all very interesting.
In a previous post on this thread i complimented Roberts Taylors products and services as one of the best in the industry - and i still vey much stand by that. However after the above i feel the need to explain further on why i have found the YSS product and their servicing to be more than adequate for my race uses.

To claim that my choice of service agent (Kerry Dukic) Dukic Suspension is QUOTE RT "has limited capacity and experience" - is somewhat perplexing considering that Dukic is the suspension tuner that fettled & won this years 600cc production championship and also my last two F3 championships.

As far as build quality is concerned - and the claim that this equipment is imminently "about to fall to pieces" - well, all i can say is that currently i have had no issues thus far- And even if we did - i have the utmost confidence in the YSS New Zealand importer and their service agent to sort any issues that arise. I have seen their investment in stock and parts and have also experienced their custom parts service and supply times - and they are as good as anyones in New Zealand.

Price !, :-) , - I own a company that imports millions of dollars of specialty components from all over the world (and we make a point of visiting all of our suppliers on a regular basis). I know for a fact people that some very very high quality products are manufactured in some of the poorer countries of this world. Just because they are poor doesnt mean they are stupid !, and they have access to world-class manufacturing machinery just like many other countries.
Often manufacturing costs are lower simply because their overhead costs (labour, Governmental control, local freight, export freight cost, limited union involvement, local raw materials) - all these things add up to reducing the cost of end products - and doesnt always mean greatly reduced quality.

To repeat - i am pleased with my YSS experience thus far, and hopefully there is more to come !, My advice to any racer or rider is to keep an open mind and consider all options when fitting any parts / consumables to your bike. This would included tyre options, brakepads, chains, Oils, Suspension, Fuels etc etc, new ideas or more efficient methods do evolve and appear on the market and sometimes these are worth considering.

Glen Williams

Fair reply Glenn but I still stand by my remarks of limited capacity and experience. That has shown through with some very disgruntled customers who werent recieving the attention promised and occured some very expensive damage due to suspension settings that to not put too fine a point on it were whacko. I saw inside the stuff afterwards and it was just disgusting, I dont want anyone with that lack of care working on the highest quality suspension.
If we are talking championships bring it on, theres a bit of catching up to do! But a measure of doing the job properly is not only about that ( its easy to pick race winners! ) its also about keeping your other customers happy and to stop them from struggling and crashing meeting after meeting after meeting.
We also struggle from time to time to get bikes dialed in quickly but we dont give up nor do we stray off on tangents that would be frowned upon from our main suppliers.
Caveat emptor.