Labour troffers - underpants, golf clubs, wine and private planes - all on our money.

[avgas]

They really need to get their shit in the same sock.

Wal Footroots?
hehehe I just had a mental image. I miss Footrot Flats

[Swoop]

Wal Footroots?
hehehe I just had a mental image. I miss Footrot Flats

Horse (the cat) cracked me up. Nobody fucked with that cat!

[pete376403]

Amid all the wailing about Labour MP spending, haven't heard much about either Murray McCully - "Across two days in Tokyo last year, Mr McCully charged $509.90 at hotel bars and on the minibar.
In Tokyo, on May 20 last year, McCully charged $187 at the Highlander Bar in the Okura Hotel. A further $271.50 was charged at the Orchid Bar the following day and $51.40 came out of the minibar. It is not clear what was purchased in each case "- or Tim Groser - "Trade Minister Tim Groser has charged at least $1469 against tax-payer funded credit cards for alcohol purchases since becoming a Minister in November 2008.
The total amount includes a $466 mini-bar bill racked up in the space of one week during the Copenhagen climate change conference.
Groser is also the Minister for Climate Change Negotiations."

Maybe being a pisshead on the taxpayer tit in the National party is acceptable behaviour.

[shrub]

Maybe being a pisshead on the taxpayer tit in the National party is acceptable behaviour.

No, we expect them to fleece us, but Labour are supposed to be the party of the people.

[Elysium]

Only one man can get away with spending out money and we still like the guy, Winston Peters.....

[Woodman]

I don't have a problem with alcohol/restaurant purchases if it is a normal part of doing business. if you have to take someone out on the piss to get a trade deal or whatever then that is a legitimate business expense and I as a taxpayer am happy to pay for it.

[Woodman]

By "rightwing policies" I assume you mean the neolib crap that has got us in the mess we're in today? If so, please feel free to explain a) why this would work, and b) why it hasn't so far.
.

By Rightwing policies, I mean extreme right wing policies, eg a very powerful dictatorship or something that will force change. I truly believe it has come to that. various summits around the world are useless and just an excuse for pollys to rack up cc bills. (phew on topic)

[SS90]

Some kiwis are stupid enough to want to go back to FPP.

Well, the thing is, human nature has (most) humans seeing change (any change) as good, as evident by Barrack Obama's campaign "for change"

the whole nation got behind it.

When we where offered "a change" we got "MMP, or FFP", we had FFP, we wanted a change, so MMP came in.

I was only young (perhaps 14), but my Social Studies Teacher was good at his job and he explained it too us.

From one eye, you can say "Ohhhh, look at the shit that has come about from MMP", more polititions, more problems, coilition governments (don't get me started), and a dramatic increase in Political fraud, back handers and so on.

It could be said that MMP was the cause of all this "new corruption"........

But, the sad thing is that when it was FFP, it was such an "old boys network", that any such antics (that have been happening since the dawn of time) where never allowed to see the light of day (one hand washes the other so to speak), but, now, with having so many greedy snouts in the trough, there is not enough "food" to go round, so, they have to sell each other out (almost daily), to get one trotter closer to the trough.

[rainman]

By Rightwing policies, I mean extreme right wing policies, eg a very powerful dictatorship or something that will force change.

I know you mean extreme right wing policies. I just want you to sell them to me, rather than assume as an article of faith that they will work (when they haven't here, or elsewhere, in the past).

I love change, but NZ doesn't do it right (understatement!). Labour undoes the mess National left, National undoes the mess Labour left, and both fritter around with things aligned to their ideologies. No-one has the balls to look at the real situation (hint: it's changed since the late 70's), come up with a workable way forward, sell it it the electorate, and then implement it effectively and accountably.

And the reason they don't is because we don't make them do so.

For this wonderful place not to end up some impoverished backwater we have to do some very smart things very soon. A good start would be understanding that there's more to change than just ticking a different coloured box on the voting paper.

Well, the thing is, human nature has (most) humans seeing change (any change) as good, as evident by Barrack Obama's campaign "for change"

I think you'll find most humans are actually terrified of change, but anyway. We don't like what we have been given before, but instead of demanding real change we allow the media to lead us around the fripperies of the day (expenses, since we're staying on topic). Far more comfortable than actually thinking about what is needed to fix things, and discussing it with and open-mind.

Flip.
Flop.
Flip.
Flop.

[Swoop]

But, the sad thing is that when it was FFP, it was such an "old boys network"

Plus the see-saw between two choices. MMP is not the best, but it does introduce the concept of having to work together with another party. With FPP it is a case of "elect us so we can shaft you with ALL of our policies and ideas"...
Muldoon certainly did that.

[mashman]

(hint: it's changed since the late 70's)

imho, the loss of the unions has had a MASSIVE effect on the power that the people have over their governments... The Right killed off the unions as they had the power to sway the workforce, strike, vote in a particular way (usually for the Left oddly enough)... No unions, no power, no voice, just govt telling us the best ways to earn money (aaa ha ha haaaaaa) to pay for the taxation required to pay for dinner and services that they just don't provide to their fullest capability... fuckin pathetic... but that's the way I see it...

It doesn't matter how we vote any more, no system works

[oldrider]

imho, the loss of the unions has had a MASSIVE effect on the power that the people have over their governments... The Right killed off the unions as they had the power to sway the workforce, strike, vote in a particular way (usually for the Left oddly enough)... No unions, no power, no voice, just govt telling us the best ways to earn money (aaa ha ha haaaaaa) to pay for the taxation required to pay for dinner and services that they just don't provide to their fullest capability... fuckin pathetic... but that's the way I see it...

It doesn't matter how we vote any more, no system works

The unions destroyed themselves, the only thing that kept them going was the fact that they were made compulsary by law! (just another form of taxation, supporting Labour)

Those unions that did what they were supposed to do, "look after their members interests" are still there and still active! (freedom of choice and competeition)

[mashman]

The unions destroyed themselves, the only thing that kept them going was the fact that they were made compulsary by law! (just another form of taxation, supporting Labour)

Those unions that did what they were supposed to do, "look after their members interests" are still there and still active! (freedom of choice and competeition)

That's not the way I see it... I understand what you mean about Unions destroying themselves, as in they kept asking for, what began to be seen as, tiresome demands... but that was the perception put forwards by the media... oh look they're moaning again (sound familiar)... BUT, what really killed them were the employers... loss of control, loss of productivity etc... and primarily because the employer didn't want to give in to the demands of their employees... the blue politicians agreed and started to dismantle the unions from the top... imho that's what's happened... death by business case.

lol, they may still be there, but they have the morals of politicians and don't seem to back any other union in their cause, even when sharing a common goal... that isn't a union to me, that's a social club.

[Bald Eagle]

The trouble is we've got in excess of a hundred 'managers' (Members of Parliament ) running an enterprise (NZ) that just needs a decent CEO and a couple of line managers, one for each island.

[rainman]

The trouble is we've got in excess of a hundred 'managers' (Members of Parliament ) running an enterprise (NZ) that just needs a decent CEO and a couple of line managers, one for each island.

Problem with the "corporate model" is that it does not lend itself to anything but optimising for economic growth, and excludes all of the other important factors required to run a society. Money ain't everything. A company is a simple abstraction compared to a country - conflating these is a dangerous game indeed. Read "Prosperity without Growth" by Prof Tim Jackson for some current thinking in this area, it's a good book.

Also, what you're proposing would lead to a superstar-style personality election. Something like the US, but without the good bits.