The AA are lying about us.

[Big Dave]

The way to change the AA 'directions' is from within. But none of 'us' can be fucked doing it.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if more than a 15 turn up for the BRONZ agm tonight - let alone fraternise with an out of touch car mob.

[HenryDorsetCase]

[youtube]J6_1Pw1xm9U[/youtube]

[Katman]

You've been listening to Katman too much.

Well you clearly haven't been listening enough.

I've never said motorcycles were dangerous - in fact, I don't think they are.

It's the motorcyclists on them that can make motorcycling dangerous.

[Katman]

It wouldn't surprise me. Our beloved leaders probably see motorcyclists as irresponsible, low intellect, low income and quite probably drug users, or just another form of boy racer.

And if that's not enough incentive to try changing the way the we are perceived then I have no idea what is.

I've said it plenty of times - if we want to be seen as responsible, mature and intelligent road users then we have to start acting as such. That includes publicly condemning those motorcyclists who ride irresponsibly.

[shrub]

And if that's not enough incentive to try changing the way the we are perceived then I have no idea what is.

I've said it plenty of times - if we want to be seen as responsible, mature and intelligent road users then we have to start acting as such. That includes publicly condemning those motorcyclists who ride irresponsibly.

Actually I agree with you there Katman, but I'm not sure how many motorcyclists out there ride irresponsibly. Sure, the Akaroa GP attracts it's share of idiots (one of the reasons I never ride that road in the weekends), and then you get the badass 1%er showing his workmates at the accounting firm how tough he is by riding at full throttle in traffic on his Harley, but I think most serious motorcyclists are pretty responsible.

And we don't have a public voice, so condemning the idiots is pretty well limited to around a fire at a rally, in a pub or on here; none of which are accessible to the general public.

[Katman]

I would be very, very surprised if 81% of motorcycle fatalities were the fault of the rider and that only 9% were caused by car drivers given that international statistics show that the other road user was primarily at fault in between 50 and 65% of accidents and road conditions were at fault in 12 - 20% of cases (depending which country you look at).

Trawl through the threads on here relating to motorcycle fatalities and you'll find very few where the motorcyclist wasn't entirely responsible for, or at least contributed to, the accident.

(And by 'contributed to' I mean 'significantly influenced').

[shrub]

Trawl through the threads on here relating to motorcycle fatalities and you'll find very few where the motorcyclist wasn't entirely responsible for, or at least contributed to, the accident.

I'm sorry, I don't see KB threads as being a valid source of research data, and from what I've seen here almost every crash is apparently caused by a "cage".

[Katman]

I'm sorry, I don't see KB threads as being a valid source of research data, and from what I've seen here almost every crash is apparently caused by a "cage".

There are plenty of threads on here that, while not necessarily providing much in the way of concrete research data, clearly offer enough information to show the rider at fault.

I'd suggest you're just too scared to allow yourself to be confronted by the ugly truth.

[-Alias-]

The AA have no Credibility.

[Str8 Jacket]

The AA have no Credibility.

Exactly what I was trying to get at.....

[davereid]

There are plenty of threads on here that, while not necessarily providing much in the way of concrete research data, clearly offer enough information to show the rider at fault.

I'd suggest you're just too scared to allow yourself to be confronted by the ugly truth.

The ugly truth is we are good riders, and getting better.

Source http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...%20version.pdf


Summary from the above, table 32 , per 10,000 motorcyclists

Year Crashes Injuries Fatalities

1951 454 451 19
1961 394 391 10.3
1971 473 516 9.2
1981 247 254 8.7
1991 270 283 10.7
2001 114 116 6.1
2004 121 123 5.8
2008 142 144 5.2

Who causes the crash ?

71% of crashes were collisions
Motorcyclist primarily responsible for 35% or about 1/3 of collisions

i.e. 2/3rds of collisions are caused by the motorist not the motorcyclist

Of all crashes including single vehicle ones, the motorcyclist was primarily responsible for 51%.

Note : When statistics indicate motorcyclists are primarily responsible for 51% of crashes, this actually indicates a good standard of driving.

Consider a population of 100 vehicles.
If they all crash in single vehicle crashes, then they are primarily responsible for 100% of crashes.
If they all crash into another vehicle, they are primarily responsible for 50% of crashes.

Real world drivers could expect to be halfway between these two extremes at 75% so 51% is statistically significant as a good outcome.

EDIT..

That doesnt mean we should just sit back, we can all become better riders. But it does mean we don't need to react by adding extra laws and controls, to what is already a very regulated riding environment.

I see the Coroner in tears today, as his proposals for compulsory helmets, roll cages, seatbelts, wofs and regos for quads has gone un-noticed.

[shrub]

The way to change the AA 'directions' is from within. But none of 'us' can be fucked doing it.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if more than a 15 turn up for the BRONZ agm tonight - let alone fraternise with an out of touch car mob.

I wonder if it isn't time to rebrand BRONZ?

[BoristheBiter]

"There were about 43 motorcyclist deaths, of which motorcyclists themselves were responsible for 35. Car drivers were responsible for four".
.

A bit off topic but who caused the other 4 deaths?
43 deaths
bikes 35 + cars 4 = 39

[Katman]

Summary from the above, table 32 , per 10,000 motorcyclists

I think you'll find that those stats are per 10,000 motorcycles, not motorcyclists. (Can't seem to open the link).

Therefore they are completely misleading. The number of motorcycles still in existence has risen considerably faster than the number of motorcyclists.

That's a pivotal factor that even Shrub's revered Professor Lamb has chosen to ignore.

[Big Dave]

I wonder if it isn't time to rebrand BRONZ?

We did. The whole thing is as good as can be expected from volunteers.

To make anything work fully would need to re-brand bikers.