Two innocent people killed in police chase

[p.dath]

All of this can be easily and cheaply fixed by technology, simply add to the cars ECU the following parameters:

1. Require an electronic license to be inserted in order to drive the vehicle
2. Allow the police to remotely shutdown the vehicle
3. disable the vehicle if it doesn't have current registration and WOF
4. Signal to any passing police vehicle if it has been tampered with

This would not be cheap. It would be incredibly expensive. I could easily see costs of $5k to retrofit the car. Can you imagine how expensive the back end system would be just to track it. Easily over $100 million.

[marty]

These members speak sense, well, maybe not the disconnecting the life support bit, but...

These morons do not care about any laws and will continue to do as they please until they are stopped. Last night on Motorway Patrol the Police attended an accident scene. What did they find? The driver with a head injury from snapping a light pole and crashing into a tree. He was drunk, blew over 700. No surprise there, but he'd lost his licence the day before after blowing over 800 and shouldn't have been driving at all, let alone drunk! As the Cop said about the light pole, "That could have been your loved one!"

The US system of upgradable charges begining with Vehicular Manslaughter should be used here along with the 3 degrees of murder. Automatic charge of manslaughter in any case. Any Police on here who could tell us why he couldn't be charged with manslaughter anyway?

vehiclular manslaughter is really just a way of saying 'reckless causing death'. Have a read of this> http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...rder_resel&p=1 to see why manslaughter is not often bought to the courts for autocide. Click the *next* button to see further sections about manslaughter

As far as I see, simply bumping penalty up with each aggravating instance would result in 'life' being given for - say - 'aggravated reckless driving causing death', instead of the current 3 years prison for 'aggravated careless causing death', or 5 years for 'dangerous/reckless causing death' (there is no current charge of 'aggravated dangerous/reckless causing death')

[pete376403]

If the guy was "well known to the Police" is it too much to assume the police knew where he lived? If the police hadn't gone into pursuit mode, but instead backed off, would the guy have run the red? Couldn't they then just turn up at his house later?

Not in any way trying to excuse the driver, and if HE had died in the pursuit I would be saying well too bad, but taking out two innocents - is that really worth it?

[marty]

This would not be cheap. It would be incredibly expensive. I could easily see costs of $5k to retrofit the car. Can you imagine how expensive the back end system would be just to track it. Easily over $100 million.

Really? card reader - $200. Installation - $200. Chipped driver's licence - $25. Compulsory @ WOF time - 2 minutes added to your WOF inspection.

Numbers and statistics made up on the internet? Most of them.

[Edbear]

vehiclular manslaughter is really just a way of saying 'reckless causing death'. Have a read of this> http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...rder_resel&p=1 to see why manslaughter is not often bought to the courts for autocide. Click the *next* button to see further sections about manslaughter

As far as I see, simply bumping penalty up with each aggravating instance would result in 'life' being given for - say - 'aggravated reckless driving causing death', instead of the current 3 years prison for 'aggravated careless causing death', or 5 years for 'dangerous/reckless causing death' (there is no current charge of 'aggravated dangerous/reckless causing death')

This bit is interesting about the definition of Murder...

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one.


90km/h through a stop sign..?

[marty]

If the guy was "well known to the Police" is it too much to assume the police knew where he lived? If the police hadn't gone into pursuit mode, but instead backed off, would the guy have run the red? Couldn't they then just turn up at his house later?

Not in any way trying to excuse the driver, and if HE had died in the pursuit I would be saying well too bad, but taking out two innocents - is that really worth it?

1. If he's known to the Police, it's likely he's of NFA.
2. I'd say they only found out who he was after he crashed.
3. He was doing 90-odd down Ferry Rd. If the Police saw him, said oh it's blah blah - we'll go and get him later - he subsequently crashed anyway and killed someone - who would be comfortable with THAT outcome?

[marty]

This bit is interesting about the definition of Murder...

(d) if the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one.


90km/h through a stop sign..?

Proving that driving through a stop sign is LIKELY to cause death is the problem. It is definately a possibility, but is likely ? I don't think so.

[munster]

Cars need to be treated just like firearms. Given this fuckwit was already disqualified, who lent or sold him a car?

If I lend you one of my rifles, I have to see your firearms licence, if I don't there are huge fines, jail time and loss of firearms licence for life.

Cars should be no different. Those who assist disqualified drivers by the provision of said vehicles are just as guilty of the outcome and should be charged as such.

[Edbear]

Proving that driving through a stop sign is LIKELY to cause death is the problem. It is definately a possibility, but is likely ? I don't think so.

Point taken. I thought this also interesting and means that he could be charged with Culpable Homicide.

160 Culpable homicide
(1) Homicide may be either culpable or not culpable.

(2) Homicide is culpable when it consists in the killing of any person—

(a) by an unlawful act; or

(b) by an omission without lawful excuse to perform or observe any legal duty; or

(c) by both combined; or

(d) by causing that person by threats or fear of violence, or by deception, to do an act which causes his death; or

(e) by wilfully frightening a child under the age of 16 years or a sick person.

(3) Except as provided in section 178, culpable homicide is either murder or manslaughter.

(4) Homicide that is not culpable is not an offence.

Compare: 1908 No 32 s 175

[BoristheBiter]

Looking at the points above from Marty & edbear this should come under the 3 strikes act.
also as above its about time you needed a licence to buy a car or bike.

And for all you saying they should have just let him go, on ZB this morning they said that the cops pulled up behide him and as the lights turned green they put their lights on to make the stop to which the driver took off and ran the next set and crashed.
how do they know some one will run untill they go to stop them?

maybe we just put cameras in all the cars and at the end of a shift they download the footage and send a ticket to the registed owner.

[marty]

Absolutely. The means of charging someone with Manslaugther is already there, and it is definately used on occasion. I'm simply advocating a stepped penalty rate specific to driving offences.

[marty]

maybe we just put cameras in all the cars and at the end of a shift they download the footage and send a ticket to the registed owner.

Why not just have 100s of cameras on the roadside and send tickets out? Why have them in cars if you're not going to do anything about it?

[Edbear]

Absolutely. The means of charging someone with Manslaugther is already there, and it is definately used on occasion. I'm simply advocating a stepped penalty rate specific to driving offences.

That's why I mentioned the 3 degrees of murder as in the US, I agree. However even without that, if the courts would seek to lay the heaviest charges available now and bring down judgements on the top end of the scale rather than the lowest charge they can, it might make a difference.

[BoristheBiter]

Why not just have 100s of cameras on the roadside and send tickets out? Why have them in cars if you're not going to do anything about it?

I was being factious.

[thehovel]

In Chch there are gangs with prospects who are keen to prove them selfs. Let them have a accident real close to any driver that kills an innocent while fleeing the police. I wouldn't have a problem with it being fatal. Afterall he is 20 just at the begining of his killing spree. We would prefer that he doesn't reoffend. Regards Richard