Looks like The Hobbit has gone

[Winston001]

I haven't been able to tease out the truth about this fiasco. Actors Equity and Helen Kelly say they simply wanted to talk to the film producers regarding wages and conditions. Nothing startling or even noteworthy about that.

Instead the public message which hit the streets was that Australian unions were calling for a boycott of The Hobbit.

What the hell actually happened here? Anybody know the correct info?

[Usarka]

unions are so 1908

1914. The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

[James Deuce]

I haven't been able to tease out the truth about this fiasco. Actors Equity and Helen Kelly say they simply wanted to talk to the film producers regarding wages and conditions. Nothing startling or even noteworthy about that.

Instead the public message which hit the streets was that Australian unions were calling for a boycott of The Hobbit.

What the hell actually happened here? Anybody know the correct info?

Yes. The Australian Union advised the NZ Union to invoke a Blacklist of The Hobbit as Australian actors earn 4 times that of their NZ counterparts on average. This ignores the different focus for actors in Aus who typically have access to a broader range of locally made TV drama and comedy, where NZ actors rely on Feature Films. It also ignores some fundamental differences in Employment Law between Australia and NZ.

In so doing they invoked SAG and the British Equity Union, thereby making it impossible for the production team to hire any name actors while the blacklist was in place as all SAG members and all British Equity members were unable to sign up for The Hobbit.

In the meantime Warner Bros. have decided to use this as an excuse to utilise the production facilities made vacant by Harry Potter and to reduce MGM's overheads in doing so.

The Union and the CTU kept telling Philippa Boyens and Fran Walsh that the blacklisting would be removed - for 30 days. It didn't happen which gave Warner Brothers the leverage it sought to take a more active part in the production of The Hobbit. Warner Brothers will be coming to NZ to tell Peter Jackson where the movie is moving to. They aren't going to waste their time coming here to do anything else.

The emotional reaction from the Producers and the Director of The Hobbit is entirely down to the standover tactics of the CTU and the NZ Actors Equity Union. It is illegal in NZ for contractors (which is what actors in NZ are) to set minimum standards for income expectations as this is regarded as price fixing. That is why Peter Jackson refused to meet with them because he then would have had his arse in the fire for not only illegally setting minimum income levels for actors, he would have also made it impossible for the average NZ film maker, you know, one with no money, to make movies in NZ ever again. The CTU and NZ actor's equity ignored the fact that it is illegal to set minimum income levels for contractors in NZ and they refused to lift the blacklist.

I went to the Wellington rally today. I bumped into a mate who I have played in bands with and he was one of the Riders of Rohan in The Lord of the Rings. Like every person who has ever worked for Peter Jackson he had nothing but praise for his ethics and was more than happy with what he was paid for his work. Getting paid for doing ANYTHING arty in NZ is a major achievement.

[Winston001]

Thanks Jim, that clarifies the situation. I feel sorry for Robyn Malcolm who is on a hiding to nothing trying to defend her union which has been caught up in a trap not of its making.

And as you say, professional acting in NZ is a very thin profession with few people actually able to make a living. The chance to join in a major movie is worth it for the experience alone.

One point: the various unions (there are more than just actors involved) with movie making, do not accept the independent contractors argument. There is no reason why an actor, cameraman, or makeup artist cannot be an employee. Except - its much simpler for the production company if they are contractors.

There was a LOTR employment case: Bryson v Three Foot Six Limited http://www.ipsofactoj.com/internatio...801%29-013.htm which found Mr Bryson was an employee, not an independent contractor.

[James Deuce]

One point: the various unions (there are more than just actors involved) with movie making, do not accept the independent contractors argument. There is no reason why an actor, cameraman, or makeup artist cannot be an employee. Except - its much simpler for the production company if they are contractors.

There was a LOTR employment case: Bryson v Three Foot Six Limited http://www.ipsofactoj.com/internatio...801%29-013.htm which found Mr Bryson was an employee, not an independent contractor.

Correct BUT it is the rare individual who isn't working for Weta workshops who can be regarded as a film industry employee.

The union may not accept the contracting argument but the vast majority of NZ film industry workers, actors and technicians, are very happy with the arrangement, and from a legal standpoint Peter jackson can't meet with the unions to discuss minimum earnings for contractors. The union may not like it, but it's a point of law.

I remember the Three Foot Six judgement when it came out and a gaffer friend of mine pointed out that Bryson will be lucky to get work cleaning toilets on a film set.

I DON'T feel sorry for Robyn Malcolm. She's been sucked in by Jennifer Ward-Leland who is the union head.

[Big Dave]

What does a gaffer do?

[Banditbandit]

What does a gaffer do?

Gaffs ??? ...

[James Deuce]

What does a gaffer do?

Head of the electrical dept.

[Winston001]

Rolls up used duct tape and then sells it to the Poms. Very popular over there I believe. Sold as Gaffer Tape.....

[MikeL]

It's WAY more than "just a movie"!

It's also about keeping New Zealand as a prime destination for more movies to be filmed here, which have massive spin-offs for the New Zealand economy.

Why stop at Hobbits?

I've been involved in the international education industry which also contributes hugely to the economy. However rising costs are deterring many foreign students from coming here. One of the major costs of course is teachers' salaries. If these teachers could just see reason and accept say a 20% cut in their pay the business would boom and we would all be better off. But no, the teacher unions in their short-sighted way won't consider the broader picture and continue to hold us all to ransom. Sheer selfishness. Anyone who's got half a brain knows that the only solution is a law change to redefine teachers as self-employed contractors, not employees. That will put an end to all this union nonsense.

[James Deuce]

Why stop at Hobbits?

I've been involved in the international education industry which also contributes hugely to the economy. However rising costs are deterring many foreign students from coming here. One of the major costs of course is teachers' salaries. If these teachers could just see reason and accept say a 20% cut in their pay the business would boom and we would all be better off. But no, the teacher unions in their short-sighted way won't consider the broader picture and continue to hold us all to ransom. Sheer selfishness. Anyone who's got half a brain knows that the only solution is a law change to redefine teachers as self-employed contractors, not employees. That will put an end to all this union nonsense.

Nope, you've utterly missed the point there. 99% of the NZ film industry is happy earning between $500 and $1000 per day for actors and extras and up to three times that for technicians. They are happy working as contractors. A tiny minority of the NZ film industry (200 AE members) has held the majority to ransom and possibly wrecked the biggest potential earner many of these people will see in the next 10 years.

What shouldn't happen now is Warners being allowed to set employment policy for NZers, but that will happen and it is about to happen BECAUSE of union involvement in a non-union production (from a NZ perspective), not in spite of.

There is NO parallel between teachers and film industry workers. That is one of the flaws in arguments presented by the CTU. One of many.

[MikeL]

There is NO parallel between teachers and film industry workers. That is one of the flaws in arguments presented by the CTU. One of many.

I would never suggest that the union is blameless in this sorry saga. It is quite likely that incompetence, if nothing more, has handed those with power (the studios on the one hand and the government on the other) an opportunity which they will not fail to exploit. Nevertheless the establishing of a precedent opens a door which can't easily be closed again. You say that there is no parallel between the two scenarios. That is true at present, simply because the teachers have not (yet) been presented with the same threat. But how can you be so sure that the principle won't apply? I can see no qualitative difference between the two.

This is a slippery slope, and if the spectacle of the prime minister scurrying about and all but tugging his forelock before the American studio executives doesn't strike you as deeply disturbing, it just shows how far down that slope we have already travelled.

So I don't think I've missed the point; there are broader issues here than you imply.

[James Deuce]

Did you read the second paragraph Mike or are you selectively ignoring that one to bolster your own PoV?

[rustyrobot]

This is a slippery slope, and if the spectacle of the prime minister scurrying about and all but tugging his forelock before the American studio executives doesn't strike you as deeply disturbing, it just shows how far down that slope we have already travelled.

This is exactly how I felt when I watched the news last night. It seems undeniable that the handling of this whole debacle by the unions involved has been appalling, but it made me cringe to see John Key begging and scraping to the studio execs (despite his posturing to the media). There should have been a minister who could do that, it is humiliating for a country's leader to be prostituting our tax laws and employment legislation for a big corporation that has allegiances only to the biggest profit.

I truly hope that the hobbit movie is made in New Zealand, but I would like to see us retain some dignity in the process. Would the same tax breaks be available to NZ film-makers? Or other local producers who can provide employment opportunities?

(oh, and thanks for your explanation James Deuce, very enlightening)

[Marmoot]

A lot of decision makers in NZ seems to have a very short memory.

Clearly nothing was learned from the fall of foreign-student market in 2005 where Winston Peters single-handedly destroyed million-dollar industry. With the sudden death of the foreign student influx, there came inner-city property price destruction, used car market collapse and now we are reaping the effect where the universities no longer have enough cross-subsidy between the markets to accommodate low-fee domestic students.

True that some minor situations may differ between this and the film industry situation, but it simply illustrates clearly that we have a hobbit (err....habbit) of shooting ourselves on the foot.

Interestingly, there is a poll in Stuff today asking whether the taxpayer should fork out extra to keep The Hobbit in NZ. I'd say no, let the Unionist fix the mess they created.