Stabbed policeman left to die

[jasonu]

It's a reflection of the way our society has "progressed" to catch up to the rest of the world, particularly the US. But not completely the US copycat, NZ society is reaping the "rewards" of a couple of generations of permissiveness and lack of parental control leading to a generation of self-centered people with no regards for authority or the rights of others.

100% agree.

[mashman]

That's really the point isn't it? The Police are actually out there doing the job, so logic says ask them what they want. I know there is a general feeling that arming the Police to carry side-arms is not the preferred option, both publicly and within the Police themselves, but they are running out of effective options and reluctantly are being forced to consider carrying arms.

It's not a situation I'd like to be in and I think anyone who wants to criticize the Police should have first-hand experience of what they face every day before voicing their opinions.

Would you, as a member of the public, accept the "Soldier idea" as an "alternative" to Police being armed?

[Edbear]

Would you, as a member of the public, accept the "Soldier idea" as an "alternative" to Police being armed?

Since these thugs only "respect" a greater force, having general army patrolling may have a greater deterrent effect than the Police, however NZ is part of a global community and the general public would see it as a state under martial law unless the idea was "sold" to the country and the world in a manner that would be acceptable. Australia probably has the best balance in that their way of arming the Police has managed to avoid the US model, at least so far, in that the Police are still generally "respected" by most without having to resort to using their side-arms very often. Yet the Aussies still regard NZ as the ideal.

As a general member of the public, I have no issues either way, as I have never had a run-in with the Police. I do have a great deal of respect and sympathy for them and am saddened that things have reached this point. Naturally, as many have opined, and the Police would no doubt agree, there should be a higher level of training available.

[BoristheBiter]

From the Police themselves. They are not "against" it as such, but would prefer not to have to. The NZ Police force is admired around the world for its effectiveness and the way it operates in the community and the general arming of the force takes us out of the traditional situation we've enjoyed thus far and into a new era of Policing, more in line with other countries. It's like an end of innocence if you like, where the Police, or more accurately, authority per se, was respected.

It's a reflection of the way our society has "progressed" to catch up to the rest of the world, particularly the US. But not completely the US copycat, NZ society is reaping the "rewards" of a couple of generations of permissiveness and lack of parental control leading to a generation of self-centered people with no regards for authority or the rights of others.

I think it was in the police association newsletter from a couple of months back, it could be longer at my age everything seems like it was last month, anyhoo the vote came back with the majority wanting to be armed.

[Edbear]

I think it was in the police association newsletter from a couple of months back, it could be longer at my age everything seems like it was last month, anyhoo the vote came back with the majority wanting to be armed.

Yeah, but as I said it is a reluctant step and one they have been forced into taking for their own protection.

[scumdog]

It's a reflection of the way our society has "progressed" to catch up to the rest of the world, particularly the US. But not completely the US copycat, NZ society is reaping the "rewards" of a couple of generations of permissiveness and lack of parental control leading to a generation of self-centered people with no regards for authority or the rights of others.

Kinda sums it up.

And to those that say "But look at the US"? - I say look at other countries with armed police that don't have so many shootings per capita.

[mashman]

I think it was in the police association newsletter from a couple of months back, it could be longer at my age everything seems like it was last month, anyhoo the vote came back with the majority wanting to be armed.

. At least they'll get some protection.

[BoristheBiter]

. At least they'll get some protection.

Until the first person gets shot then they'll get taken off them.

[mashman]

Until the first person gets shot then they'll get taken off them.

I wish that could be the case, but alas, "innocent" people and animals are currently getting shot and killed without the rest of the Police being armed... I doubt TPTB will ever revoke guns, it'd prove they were wrong in giving them in the first place and that sort of sense just isn't politics

[scumdog]

I wish that could be the case, but alas, "innocent" people and animals are currently getting shot and killed without the rest of the Police being armed..

I'll bite.

How many 'innocent people have been shot so far?

(I realise that even one is one too many but your comment sounds just like the thing the media prints)

[mashman]

I'll bite.

How many 'innocent people have been shot so far?

(I realise that even one is one too many but your comment sounds just like the thing the media prints)

I'm sure you would...

. sarcasm sprinkled with a light touch of realism. I wasn't having a go, I don't keep a running total, and I understand that when an innocent person is shot, that it hasn't been on purpose and needn't be through lack of training etc... But where there are guns, there's the potential for accidents, and they do happen.

Perhaps I should move into media.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm sure you would...

. sarcasm sprinkled with a light touch of realism. I wasn't having a go, I don't keep a running total, and I understand that when an innocent person is shot, that it hasn't been on purpose and needn't be through lack of training etc... But where there are guns, there's the potential for accidents, and they do happen.

Perhaps I should move into media.

This type of reasoning is why we have the problems we do.

More people die on the roads so lets ban cars too.
Can't use cycles as more have died on them and look at now many fall off horses so they're out to.
So it is back to walking everywhere but then we all have to wear hi-vis jackets as we might walk into each other.

[mashman]

This type of reasoning is why we have the problems we do.

More people die on the roads so lets ban cars too.
Can't use cycles as more have died on them and look at now many fall off horses so they're out to.
So it is back to walking everywhere but then we all have to wear hi-vis jackets as we might walk into each other.

I can see the parallels with the arming of Police

[Swoop]

Rangitoto comes to mind

I believe that is a DoC island. The resource consent would be a nightmare to get approved.

Dammit.

[ellipsis]

....my brother and myself got a cops handgun waved under our noses in the US, it was not that freaky, we had been warned that the place we were going to was a a dangerous area to walk around, specially if you were a white guy...in fact after reflecting on our naivete for being there, it all seemed pretty contextual.....an aussie cop poked one in my face, my fault, I was pissed and swimming in a motel pool that looked inviting but wasn't mine to use. A bit OTT I think , and he looked scared, he looked less scared when he put it away and called me a kiwi twat, and took me home in his wagon....I got marched off a beach in Italy by two cops with funny hats and Uzi's or suchlike little machine-guns hanging on short straps over their shoulders....couldnt figure out why, but as long as my hands were up in the air I felt safe, mistaken identity it turned out....I got assailed by two London Metro Cops one night whilst working late and walking home, no guns involved, just a sweeney todd type interview, car mounted footpath, one arm round the neck , kick to the knee, on the ground and stood on, very rough questioning about who, what, where and why. Happy that I wasnt a mad irish bomber or a jack the ripper, they just fucked off, no ok then, sorry or concern....I was a lot more concerned by the heaviness of the unarmed metro boys than all the gun toting cops I had run across.....maybe just bring back the boot and fuck the PC shit back to where it belongs...most smart arse little cunts know a cop will not shoot and they will just play the smart arse game until some money hungry lawyer or a bunch of PC pussies steps in to look after them....