John Key has been unable to turn our economy around

[yachtie10]

I was fully aware that he used the 'partially' sweetener, but partially selling an asset is still selling that asset, and majority ownership can be as little as 51% ownership. I'm neither a lefty nor a righty - I don't think that continuum has a lot of relevance or meaning these days - I more think of myself as a long termer and try and focus on long term benefits for all New Zealanders, as opposed to quick and dirty vote winning tactics.

My point was that they are saying they are buying other assets with the money!

and i dont see it as a vote winner. personally they would be better doing nothing if they want to win the next election

[mashman]

Steady on mate, sorting out all of those things will definitely help with the economy so they're not necessarily excluded by a economy centric focus.

deep breasts, deep breasts ... true they're not "necessarily excluded", but I don't believe this is the way to stimulate the economy (did that come across ) and certainly can't see how this will have positive knock on effects for the "ills" of society, which, to me anyway, is the mark of a "healthy" country. JK seems to think the mark of a"healthy" country is its economy... as pointed out to me recently Tunisia don't have financial problems, and yet threw out their President. Sort the people out first, then worry about feeding the rest of the world and making $$$... but yes we need $$$ to do it, selling stuff off is not the way to go about it imho.

[Scuba_Steve]

My point was that they are saying they are buying other assets with the money!

and i dont see it as a vote winner. personally they would be better doing nothing if they want to win the next election

yea they might be able to buy some shares in ACC when they privatise it
"remember its easier to put the stick in a cm at a time, people notice when you ram the whole stick up all at once"

[mashman]

oh good another lefty bashes the right thread and as usual is blind to the real facts

I have no sympathy for right wingers that think to privatise is to solve all issues (havnt seen this work in NZ yet)

but the article has a quote in it that was conviently ignored

"In each case, the government would retain majority ownership and control, and the freed-up capital would be used to purchase other public assets, thereby reducing the government's need to borrow," Mr Key said.

I also made reference to the 50% too (just in case yer aimin that one at me ). But, Purchase what assets? What's gonna be left to buy?

[shrub]

yeah, good point, I missed that comment, incorrectly assuming that the money raised would be used to reduce the deficit, thereby reducing the risk of a credit downgrade. Having said that, what assets were they planning to purchase? I can't think of any good reason to sell one asset to buy another.

I'm also very uncomfortable with the whole idea of encouraging "mum and dad" and institutional investors to purchase shares in service enterprises when where we really need to have money invested in export oriented businesses. FFS, Synlait were unable to raise money domestically to expand their very profitable plant in South Canterbury, so they sold a 51% stake to the Chinese, therefore the profit made from adding value to our milk is exported.

[yachtie10]

yeah, good point, I missed that comment, incorrectly assuming that the money raised would be used to reduce the deficit, thereby reducing the risk of a credit downgrade. Having said that, what assets were they planning to purchase? I can't think of any good reason to sell one asset to buy another.

I'm also very uncomfortable with the whole idea of encouraging "mum and dad" and institutional investors to purchase shares in service enterprises when where we really need to have money invested in export oriented businesses. FFS, Synlait were unable to raise money domestically to expand their very profitable plant in South Canterbury, so they sold a 51% stake to the Chinese, therefore the profit made from adding value to our milk is exported.

Fair enough but i dont know what the solution is
I personally dont want my life savings invested in a nz company that will just declare itself bankcrupt when things go bad (while the director/owners walk away with plenty of money that came from the company in some way. As has happened a lot recently

[shrub]

Fair enough but i dont know what the solution is
I personally dont want my life savings invested in a nz company that will just declare itself bankcrupt when things go bad (while the director/owners walk away with plenty of money that came from the company in some way. As has happened a lot recently

To the best of my knowledge, few (if any) well run export oriented companies have gone bankrupt recently. The frequent collapse of finance companies is well documented, but most of those finance companies were not well run and all they did was lend money - a service.

[yachtie10]

I also made reference to the 50% too (just in case yer aimin that one at me ). But, Purchase what assets? What's gonna be left to buy?

I didnt think your first post was worth responding too
sounded to me like "im a comunist and anyone who has different ideas to me is evil"

BTW I am not a right wing zealot but I get sick of left wingers who see no wrong in what labour do and all wrong in what national do (IMHO that makes them stupid)
both side do things i think are wrong

[yachtie10]

To the best of my knowledge, few (if any) well run export oriented companies have gone bankrupt recently. The frequent collapse of finance companies is well documented, but most of those finance companies were not well run and all they did was lend money - a service.

yes but where do a lot of companies get their money?

[Genestho]

Ahhh yes election year, what short memories Kiwi's have...

As America's housing economy began crashing down like dominoes in early '07 anyone with half a brain knew what was coming.

In late 08 National inherited 9 years of Labour debt - the books were a mess.

How I laugh when I read back over Labour's 'successful run'.
One of the most economical times in NZ history, and what financial forward thinking came about there?

Labour's got nothing new, except hair dye.

[shrub]

yes but where do a lot of companies get there money?

Generally not the finance companies that went under - they specialised in HP and mortgages. Businesses typically raise money through equity arrangements, venture financiers and loans (mostly from banks). There are exceptions - eg. leasing agreements are essentially a way of raising money, and lease companies are finance companies under a different name.

[mashman]

I didnt think your first post was worth responding too
sounded to me like "im a comunist and anyone who has different ideas to me is evil"

BTW I am not right wing zealot but I get sick of left wingers who see no wrong in what labour do and all wrong in what national do (IMHO that makes them stupid)

labelled again. I'm baggin JK because of his ideas. Labour are just as bad. I don;t vote because they're all pretty useless... although putting the tax system back the way it was would be a good thing imho and if it's Labour that has that idea, fine, if it's National, fine... but your instinct not to read the post was likely a correct one

BTW, i'm not a communist either.

[Brian d marge]

I told you so
( and like it will stay at 51% govn owned ....tui ad )
Stephen

[shrub]

In late 08 National inherited 9 years of Labour debt - the books were a mess.

Labour's got nothing new, except hair dye.

Actually, National inherited 9 years of private debt. In 08 our sovereign debt wasn't too bad, and the main reason we didn't get slaughtered in the GEC was because our books were in comparitively good nick (despite what the National party spin doctors told us - remember being told that ACC was broke?).

However, our current deficit is (from memory) -9% of GDP, which is worse than Ireland's! WHat has saved us is our debt is predominantly private debt - in other words, our deficit is nothing to do with Cullen, and everything to do with you and I buying bikes and flat screen TVs and big, flash houses with money lent to us by (predominantly) Asians. Funny how our TVs and bikes are made by the same people that lent us the money.....

[yachtie10]

labelled again. I'm baggin JK because of his ideas. Labour are just as bad. I don;t vote because they're all pretty useless... although putting the tax system back the way it was would be a good thing imho and if it's Labour that has that idea, fine, if it's National, fine... but your instinct not to read the post was likely a correct one

BTW, i'm not a communist either.

I stand corrected

BTW I think the tax system is in credibly inequitable now and should be evened out
not just the few paying for all