Exactly how far out of touch...

[Ocean1]

It has to be about Moral value, not monetary.

What has economics got to do with morals?

It's not just the wrong tool for the job it's a completely unrelated field.

[mashman]

What has economics got to do with morals?

It's not just the wrong tool for the job it's a completely unrelated field.

So, it's business not personal?

[Ocean1]

So, it's business not personal?

Spin it however you like, morals are a social code of conduct, the economy is a collective unit of value. You might as well complain that you have insuficient pudding to water your lawn. Utter gibberish.

I reckon some people think there's a limited pool of money and some other bastards's getting their share. In fact there's a limitless supply of it, if you've got the will to take it.

If you don't want to work that hard then have the grace to admit that you can't make the world a nicer place in which to live by stealing the fruits of other people's endevours.

[Winston001]

Occam’s razor. The crippling exposure to trade barriers and the much higher social support costs.

We’re small. That hurts us at the trade tables. We import unskilled immigrants to bolster our own incompetents and then insist on supporting them.

Aha! So William of Occam is to blame. All is revealed. Not that I remember him really but its a relief to have someone to blame. The Kiwi way.

[oldrider]

...perhaps to be replaced by a different set?

Actually, in a way I hope Winnie does get back in. He adds a dash of comedic style that might get me reading Hansard again. Pity we can't have Cullen back too, he was quite witty. The current lot are boring as a boring thing.

Muldoon, Langey, etc great comedians piss poor prime ministers and politicians!

I don't want a joker "leading" (?) the country, I want a real leader for a change!

But can a real leader in NZ stand up! (Please .... socialists need not apply, that takes care of the Winston and Cullen fantasy)

[mashman]

Spin it however you like, morals are a social code of conduct, the economy is a collective unit of value. You might as well complain that you have insuficient pudding to water your lawn. Utter gibberish.

I reckon some people think there's a limited pool of money and some other bastards's getting their share. In fact there's a limitless supply of it, if you've got the will to take it.

If you don't want to work that hard then have the grace to admit that you can't make the world a nicer place in which to live by stealing the fruits of other people's endevours.

, spin eh... it's an excuse. Usually associated with someone getting ripped off. But all's fair in love and war .

True, money is limitless. Why do people complain about bludgers? They're just taking theirs with as much effort as they decide to put in.

I work plenty hard thanks... and there i'm lost with the rest of your metaphor.

[StoneY]

He kept labour out of office for a start.

No ... he won his first term...he has yet to defend his position into term 2 and I for one hope he loses this year, I think Keys a rich puppet for other rich bastards who invest everything offshore

[rainman]

I don't want a joker "leading" (?) the country

Well, it's too late for that.

(Ba doom tish!)

Sorry, had to be done. And seriously, as you probably know, they're all jokers.

Personally I liked Cullen's work as well as his style (mostly, and certainly compared with Blinglish), but I would expect you might disagree with that.

Winnie, I'm not so sure. He's not really a friend of the Greens but some of their policy is OK if idealistic/populist (employment, exports, asset sales, tariffs...). Don't like the immigration rhetoric much. And his low tax policies don't really match his general spending policies.

[puddytat]

People have been winging for years,blaming one Govt or the other, but I find it sad really that to few of us actually have the guts to try something new....whats so scary about voting for something completely different like the GREENSseeing as the other lot of tossers weve had since way back when seem to have done fuck all that we're happy with. Grow some & try something else.
The problem I say again with the economic monetary system IS that it lacks moral safeguards which allow some morally dodgey people to treat the planet & people as fodder for thier self indulgence & ego...IMO

[Drunken Monkey]

The have-nots need tangible incentives to improve their lot, rather than soaking up increasing amounts of taxpayer dollars and getting voting rights to maintain that position.

That's not all there is to contributing to a country. Start with the 1 vote per $10K earned, and add votes for volunteer community service, serving in the armed forces, etc...This way you're not restricting voting to purchasing power (and not all rich people are rich because they work hard or are smart) - give people of all walks of life options to increase their voting power, as long as they are contributing positively to the country.

[shrub]

People have been winging for years,blaming one Govt or the other, but I find it sad really that to few of us actually have the guts to try something new....whats so scary about voting for something completely different like the GREENSseeing as the other lot of tossers weve had since way back when seem to have done fuck all that we're happy with. Grow some & try something else.
The problem I say again with the economic monetary system IS that it lacks moral safeguards which allow some morally dodgey people to treat the planet & people as fodder for thier self indulgence & ego...IMO

Vote for the Greens? Are you crazy or something?

Aren't they the idiots behind the home insulations scheme? You know, the scheme that created jobs, reduced energy consumpstion and saved ordinary kiwis money - what a silly idea, tax cuts are much more fun.

And don't they support New Zealand businesses through the buy Kiwi made campaign? What were they thinking - surely supporting NZ business is better achieved through encouraging more overseas companies to set up shop her or NZ businesses to move manufacturing overseas?

And when was the last time you heard of a Green MP dipping his or her fingers in the till and taking trips overseas with their girlfriends, rorting the accomodation subsidy etc? Do those idiots have no idea how to conduct themselves in parliament?

Or slagging off their own party/leader/colleagues publicly? This getting on with each other and focussing on the big picture instead of point scoring is nothing short of idiotic.

Nope, I can't see why anyone would vote Greens. Hell, if we had a Green government, who would we complain about?

[MSTRS:Me]

Hell, if we had a Green government, who would we complain about?

The people who put them there?

[avgas]

The americans are ripping us off now!

http://www.amazon.com/RIOT-Macs-BEER.../dp/B0049YWNDK

[MisterD]

rorting the accomodation subsidy etc?

Wasn't that around the middle of 2009?

[Edbear]

If anyone steps back and takes an overview of this thread, it explains the current situation in NZ and indeed the world. Imagine if everyone on KB was like-minded and shared the same views.

That is why the Govt's will never change anything for the better. Maybe a bit here or there balanced by a bit worse here or there and leading to a change every term or two. Doesn't matter who, or which party is in power, the country and the world is going to keep on the way it is going now. You're never going to see a party with the nous and the power to make the right decisions and implement them effectively. You're never going to see everyone agreeing on the right way to solve the issues in front of us and KB is a prime example of why.