Jerez 2-3 April...

[Brian d marge]

I think is deeper than the front end of the ducati

from what I understand the Bridgestones need heat quickly and shed heat quickly

So you need to be front and centre from the get go, ( see elias )

They need to be treated rough, ( see raising the engine , but didnt Suzuki who were onto the bridgestones last year move the engine up and back??? )

Now the ducati has a carbon fibre chassis, which isnt easy to change. so mid corner chassis flex is not going to be easy to pin point

Or is the electronics , the problem. ( Italian electrics?? ) not allowing the bike to pitch and load the front ?

Be lovely to know ( I wonder if its worth sending a tweet to @spalders .....


My guess is chassis , as they seem to be under-steering and tucking in , mid corner

Stephen

[Brett]

I think is deeper than the front end of the ducati

from what I understand the Bridgestones need heat quickly and shed heat quickly

So you need to be front and centre from the get go, ( see elias )

They need to be treated rough, ( see raising the engine , but didnt Suzuki who were onto the bridgestones last year move the engine up and back??? )

Now the ducati has a carbon fibre chassis, which isnt easy to change. so mid corner chassis flex is not going to be easy to pin point

Or is the electronics , the problem. ( Italian electrics?? ) not allowing the bike to pitch and load the front ?

Be lovely to know ( I wonder if its worth sending a tweet to @spalders .....


My guess is chassis , as they seem to be under-steering and tucking in , mid corner

Stephen

Agreed, could be any of the aforementioned items... Hope they do sort it though. Nicky Hayden seemed to do perfectly well on it at Jerez interestingly....

[pritch]

I have never see an incident/meeting stir up the various boards in the manner this one has. Doesn't seem to matter what nationality the various fans are, it does seem a lot of them watch TV with one eye firmly closed. Being away from home I won't get to see the races until Friday but the shit storm on the 'Net has certainly been keeping me entertained meantime.

Rossi was quoted during testing as saying the main problem was getting the bike to turn. I saw a recent Burgess quote during which he said words to the effect, "There's a lot of different bits of metal whizzing around."

Hayden has said that if Rossi doesn't start winning on the Duc the Italian fans will burn the factory.

So taking all that into account, how long before Ducati can produce a bike with the engine running backwards like the M1?

Can any engineers here indicate how long such a redesign would take to produce? As in, given the motivation and the resources, could it be done by Estoril (1 May)? I assume an additional shaft would required between the engine and the gearbox which would presumably necessitate new cases but any subtleties would elude me.

[DidJit]

... I saw a recent Burgess quote during which he said words to the effect, "There's a lot of different bits of metal whizzing around." ...
So taking all that into account, how long before Ducati can produce a bike with the engine running backwards like the M1? ... I assume an additional shaft would required between the engine and the gearbox which would presumably necessitate new cases but any subtleties would elude me.

I saw that quote too.

The radical overhaul of the GP11, which will be one of the most sweeping changes since Ducati entered MotoGP in 2003, will be the design of a new Desmosedici motor.

MCN understands the motor will undergo several internal changes and will feature a heavier crankshaft to help Rossi bridge the huge gulf in performance to rivals Honda.

Rossi’s biggest complaint about the Ducati is an understeer issue that can’t be cured just by set-up modifications.

But Rossi’s Aussie crew chief Jerry Burgess reckons Rossi’s problem doesn’t automatically necessitate major changes to the Ducati carbon fibre chassis.

Speaking to MCN, Burgess said: “You could think the changes might be with the frame, but it could easily be an engine response problem. The basic hardware in the engine, there are lots of things that fly around and they all contribute a lot.

“And some of those parts are far more important than a lot of people think, so we’ll be looking at changing some of that so that we better understand the problem for the future.

“All engines have their character and all are different. I imagine we will always have a 90-degree V-engine at Ducati. That is part of the Ducati way but I don’t see that is a problem.

“We have to work on getting the power to the ground earlier and with more control. So we need a general re-tuning, a small redesign of the engine might help along with a couple of other things.”

The Estoril test takes place on May 2, meaning Ducati engineers in Bologna are facing a race against time to have such major changes implemented.

Another race against time is to get Rossi’s damaged right shoulder to full strength and Burgess added: “These projects need to be rolling quite early and the idea is to build the bike into a winning bike and it will be better when he is at full fitness.

“We know where we have come from in the past couple of years and we know where we are at now. Honda has made a leap forward so we really need to be in a position that if we go into a major re-design we can go two or three steps in one hit. This might not be a quick fix.

“We’re here for the long haul and we want to be ready to go racing next year and beyond. If we comeback towards the end of the year languishing in third, fourth or fifth but start to hammer home some advantage with wins, that will be pleasing enough in itself. If we don’t then we haven’t done enough work.”

Source. Interesting stuff!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I saw that quote too.

I find it odd that they say "The gulf between the Ducati and the Honda" when at Qatar the Ducati was the fastest down the front chute. And IMO they were talking about engine pereformance at that time.

[LBD]

Obviously FIM think something needs to be investigated...

"The FIM will review how the Rossi-Stoner collision in Jerez was handled. Following the collision between Rossi and Stoner during the MotoGP race of the Spanish Grand Prix on 3 April in Jerez, the Race Direction has decided to organize a hearing with the Clerk of the Course and the Chief Marshal in order to review the incident and to hear the explanation of the officials in charge. Due to the fact that the final decision of the Race Direction will not affect the result of the race, the hearing will be organized on Thursday 28 April in Estoril, Portugal."

[Maido]

Obviously FIM think something needs to be investigated...

"The FIM will review how the Rossi-Stoner collision in Jerez was handled. Following the collision between Rossi and Stoner during the MotoGP race of the Spanish Grand Prix on 3 April in Jerez, the Race Direction has decided to organize a hearing with the Clerk of the Course and the Chief Marshal in order to review the incident and to hear the explanation of the officials in charge. Due to the fact that the final decision of the Race Direction will not affect the result of the race, the hearing will be organized on Thursday 28 April in Estoril, Portugal."

I don't think the incedent itself is the cause of this, it looked like rossi got the line and then tucked the front, there was plenty of room there. I think it was the fact that all the marshalls helped push start Rossi, and then left Stoner high and dry on the track. Apparently the Honda clutch setup needs at least 2 people to push start it (not one skinny Ocker).

[LBD]

I don't think the incedent itself is the cause of this, it looked like rossi got the line and then tucked the front, there was plenty of room there. I think it was the fact that all the marshalls helped push start Rossi, and then left Stoner high and dry on the track. Apparently the Honda clutch setup needs at least 2 people to push start it (not one skinny Ocker).

Thats what it will be.... "to hear the explanation of the officials in charge"....otherwise they will be asking the riders to explain

[Benk]

rossi got the line and then tucked the front, there was plenty of room there

Haha, tongue in cheek I sincerely hope.

[pritch]

Obviously FIM think something needs to be investigated...

Yes. The marshalls.

There is Spanish(?) spectator video on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNe6VzhNo0
which shows about half the marshalls went to assist Stoner but didn't stay long. Maybe they decided an uphill push on, or close to, the racing line wasn't for them?

[Reckless]

Yes. The marshalls.

There is Spanish(?) spectator video on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYNe6VzhNo0
which shows about half the marshalls went to assist Stoner but didn't stay long. Maybe they decided an uphill push on, or close to, the racing line wasn't for them?

Tell ya one thing though they're bloody brave rushin out there in a mob not many forms of motor sport would even allow it!! Imagine if it had been oil bought them down and the marshals all got cleaned out by the next bike!
Looks like the Duke never stalled and they all gave up when they had to cross the track pushin Stoner and went back to they're stations! In they're defence I doubt many are trained in how to bump start a motoGP bike!

Poor bloody Stoner wants to prove himself sooo BAD again after battling with the Duke last year and the fact they wouldn't change it!

Just had a really shit round 2 whichever way you look at it!

Oh Btw thank pritch when watchin it in u tube spotted this link Race highlights! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSzQ2...eature=related 2min17s of whooohooo!!!
You can skip that embarrassing Air NZ add after 3 secs!

[merv]

Looking at that video I think Casey exaggerated a bit, it looks like they tried quite hard to get him going and didn't abandon him in favour of Rossi. Rossi got going OK because his bike was still running. So this tells me they are allowed to have engines that don't die when they tip over - I'm surprised the safety nazis don't insist on auto-kill systems when they are decked.

[Brian d marge]

Ok work with me on this one

Reading the comments from JB and rossi and others

There are only a few bits that matter , Clutch , crankshaft and flywheels making the flywheel heavier and the clutch lighter will load the front tyre

Possibly its quicker and cheaper to produce than the chassis ( not sure about carbon fibre is stiff thats for sure; in one direction) Also it would spin up as quickly , without robbing power , could cure a snatchy engine that may be difficult to control mid corner ( just a guess )

Understeer or " pushing the front" or slip angle , ( at high speeds ) is a function of the tyre friction characteristics, and from the top of me head is also difficult to change direction. ( all of which Jb/rossi/stoner have said ) So if the bike is understeering and the front tucking in then the tyre ain't working

Too hot or cold

Stoner and De puni ride it like they stole it , Rossi likes it to work. How they are going to get that tyre to work is another story,

Me ...bin the CF frame . run and ali frame till I get the handling right , then build a cf frame with the same characteristics ,

and on saying that, the goal posts will move again when they ( i think ) go back to 1000cc

Stephen

Stephen

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner and De puni ride it like they stole it , Rossi likes it to work. How they are going to get that tyre to work is another story,

Me ...bin the CF frame . run and ali frame till I get the handling right , then build a cf frame with the same characteristics ,

I've read Stoner saying he had to ride it like that every single lap to keep the heat in the tyre...otherwise it'd simply go cold and not work. Always wondered why when he had a 3 sec lead he'd just keep going mental...then sometimes bin it!

If you saw Rossi's crash in Qualifying...it was a typical Stoner crash. Mid corner, doing nothing different from the previous lap...then down in a heap. I'm wondering if the CF frame simply offers no feel whatsoever? Maybe a difference in molecular structure between alloy and CF makes all the diff?

[jasonu]

A better event than the last race IMO. Maybe they should order rain for all GP's...