MNZ board nominations

[Billy]

That wasn't really my point though Billy. That being the case is irrelevant IMO it was the manner in which the decision was made.

Is there actually even a provision for a 'probation' period in the rules of MNZ? Was he duly notified prior to the Hampton Downs incident of this fact and the duration of it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend Bryce's riding or even commenting on it...my only concern has always been in the delivery of the verdict and the timing of it. The details were never aired fully on here (in the thread 'The goat of Hampton Downs') and I see no point in doing so now. However, as far as I could see knowing what I do, there was no process followed...and if it was a process that was followed (Lord help us) then it was anything but fair as is claimed by the slogan MNZ has adopted.

Biggles (hehehe...that felt wayyyyy better!)

Hi Morris...Oops Marcus(sorry slipped out,Its become habit now),

Yes I was aware that the outcome was not the focus of the post,But it does have some relevance,Supposing Bryce were left too sort things out for himself(and Ive said this before)and seriously injured/Killed Himself or another competitor,Then the discission would be completely different wouldnt it?

If you go back through this VERY amusing thread far enough,You'll find a post from Kevin Goddard where he explains that bryce was suspended for breaching the code of conduct,While this is possibly not the fairest process to us as competitors,In this case the means did fit the end,This process was not introduced by the current administration but in this case I feel they used it appropriately.

The action was not instigated on the basis of a hearsay statement made on this site,Rather that statement gave them cause for further investigation and they obtained a statement from a top level Superbike rider that was on track and saw the incident unfold.

Hope this clears the matter up for you.

Talk again soon MOOOREECE.

[Drew]

Sorry Billy, but the handling of Bryce's case was wrong.

By your logic, someone who has shoplifted a few times should be jailed for car conversion if they have a nice car.

Most of the western worlds legal system is built on a very simple premiss, that we are all innocent until proven guilty. Start fucking with that saying that the ends justify the means, and innocent people start getting fucked over.

I fully agree that Bryce was in need of some serious help to get himself in control of his bike, and that the tracks are safer now that he has. But if in any of my many crashes I'd taken someone down with me, and MNZ did the same thing again I'd scream bloody murder.

[Billy]

Sorry Billy, but the handling of Bryce's case was wrong.

By your logic, someone who has shoplifted a few times should be jailed for car conversion if they have a nice car.

Most of the western worlds legal system is built on a very simple premiss, that we are all innocent until proven guilty. Start fucking with that saying that the ends justify the means, and innocent people start getting fucked over.

I fully agree that Bryce was in need of some serious help to get himself in control of his bike, and that the tracks are safer now that he has. But if in any of my many crashes I'd taken someone down with me, and MNZ did the same thing again I'd scream bloody murder.

No need to apologise too anybody on here mate,

Its an open forum and everybodys entitled to an opinion,I did mention in the post that it probably wasnt the fairest way too deal with the situation,But I stand by the statement "the means justify the end" as clearly in this case as they did.

Heres another good example for you,A year or so ago I rang Jim and queried him as to why he wasnt doing anything to stop Sandra Staminova from killing herself or somebody else??The reply was"Cause nobodys laid a complaint and it hasnt been mentioned in any stewards report",8 crashes in 6 winter series meetings(not counting test days)and NO report????

Rather than lay a complaint I contacted Sandra and offered her a FREE ride on a Prolite 250 and some coaching to help her better understand where she was going wrong,Her reply was that she would only take it if she could ride it alongside her superbike,

Moral there is "some people cant see the wood for the trees" and need a more serious approach,Where do you see Bryce fitting in here????

Oh and as I also stated in the post,The current admin did NOT introduce the code of conduct,Rather its a tool they have and I make no apologies to anybody in this case I feel they used it properly.

RE the shoplifting/car conversion statement,I guess that would depend whether they had shoplifted say the tools used for stealing cars and whether they were apprehended in full carpark with no good reason for being there, Bwahahahaahahaha

[sidecar bob]

And yey Jim comits a breach of the code of conduct & nothing gets done about it. Go figure.

[Billy]

And yey Jim comits a breach of the code of conduct & nothing gets done about it. Go figure.

Which was ???

[racer40]

Hi Billy, First up i did do 1 round in the 2010 season, getting 2nd in NZTT, this year i couldnt race until a certain time because of surjury.
I do take things personally with what you are saying, when you dont have the right facts, but im not going to get into that with you on here.
Idont have to race at nationals if i dont want to I have done them about 15 times over the last 23 years.
I think you are making things worse for Jim with all your ranting on here, so just carry on I dont mind LOL . Chris

[sidecar bob]

Which was ???

Being investigated by the Police for an assault wasnt it?
I thought you had read through the thread.
Shouldnt he have at least been been offered anger managment counselling, using the Sandra Stamovia case as a template?
Dont let the facts get in the way of your agenda though.
The one emblazoned across the bottom of your profile.

[White trash]

Being investigated by the Police for an assault wasnt it?

Was he charged?

[Billy]

Hi Billy, First up i did do 1 round in the 2010 season, getting 2nd in NZTT, this year i couldnt race until a certain time because of surjury.
I do take things personally with what you are saying, when you dont have the right facts, but im not going to get into that with you on here.
Idont have to race at nationals if i dont want to I have done them about 15 times over the last 23 years.
I think you are making things worse for Jim with all your ranting on here, so just carry on I dont mind LOL . Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for coming on here and giving us your opinion,Im sure you have better things to do with your time as does Jim actually running MNZ and not just talking about it!!

Yes I was aware you had competed at the TT as I too am able to access "mylaps",
Im sure youve heard the expression "1 swallow does NOT make a summer"

Can you please explain too the rest of us,What if anything you have done in the past 2 years as a senior and well respected member of the sidecar fraternity as well as being the immediate past president of the now disassociated NZSRA to ease the rift between some sidecar competitors in nz and MNZ and the sidecar competitors that did try to put on a show for the general public???

And is this how you would handle the difficult issues as MNZ president???

I am aware of the amount of effort you have put into doing the National series pre the period mentioned above,As I have been a competitor and member of MNZ and its predecessor the NZACU since first competing at the now defunct Porrirua Grand Prix in 1971,I think I have as good an idea if not better than most on this site,Whos who and which people are capable.

During that 40 years I have been a close personal friend of the current MNZ president and have observed the total commitment he has had for MNZ/NZACU as a whole for very little return,He is NOT a retired or current when they feel like it competitor,He has devoted a huge part of his life to nurturing a sport he has never had any physical return from and therefore has NO hidden agendas as have been implied by others in this very thread.

Is it not also true that the surgery you mention above was kidney replacement ?

Was this not due too you being diagnosed with renal failure and has been stated in a previous post in this thread continued too compete putting yourself and other competitors/spectators at risk in the case of loss of consciouness while operating your machine,We have all seen the evidence of the effects of renal failure in Jonah Lomu,I would suggest he is a much bigger/stronger and fitter individual than yourself and he clearly couldnt deal with it.

Is it not your responsibility as a competitor to notify MNZ through your medical practitioner if or when circumstances arise medically that may impede your ability too control a machine safely?In fact let me answer that for you"Yes" and its on the MNZ licence application form we all fill out when applying for a licence.

Did you or your medical practitioner notify MNZ immediately you were diagnosed?or is it fact the current MNZ president had too make contact with you on this matter and is this the type of transperency Mr Scrivener speaks of ??

Is it also true you intend to run the roadrace National series in the same manner you have become accustomed to with the TRRS whereby it has been stated by both Sidecar Bob and scrivy it runs at a loss ???

Is it also true as stated by Mr Scrivener in an earlier post in this thread that there have been No new entrants too the NZSRA in the past 2 years only 1 renewal and 2 teams that MIGHT by a rig after the next Have A Go day??

If this is seen too be fact,I find it disturbing that you can claim you will be increasing the numbers at National Level when you cant rally the troops in sidecar racing alone!

As a comparison,I have singlehandedly introduced 4 new entrants at club level,Rachel Price,Astrid Hartnell,Simon Vollmer and the late Tim Porter,
(It should be noted here Rachel had competed a couple of times previous but had no immediate avenue to further compete until I contacted her)
Moved Simon on to participate at National level in the new Prolite 250 class as well as introduced at National level the following,Alex Bowers,Paul Billington,Sarah Elliot.

Surely that leaves the NZSRAs attempts over the past 2 years too be wanting???

I have not seen anywhere,You have stated how you will improve the situation re Junior training and entry level coaching and nurturing as has been evident in the South Island in recent years and is clearly the best way of increasing sustainable grid numbers and growing the sport,

What are your plans here??

I am aware the current board and commission have some big plans in this area especially the 13-15 year old age bracket targeted by Peter Jones and MCC.

Can you give the members a guarantee that Messrs Scrivener and Bryan will hold NO position of power with in the organisation and that you will not be influenced in anyway by their destructive approach too the sport ??

Finally,If you have taken my comments on here personally then I am saddened,It was however in some cases the only way too get my point across without one on one dialogue,Or too put it another way,Dealing with the dogs and not the owner,

"Who let the dogs out"Make an excellent song that!!

[Billy]

Being investigated by the Police for an assault wasnt it?
I thought you had read through the thread.
Shouldnt he have at least been been offered anger managment counselling, using the Sandra Stamovia case as a template?
Dont let the facts get in the way of your agenda though.
The one emblazoned across the bottom of your profile.

I would have thought you could work that out your self Steve,

Being accused of anything is not good reason for a code of conduct charge,

As Jim was consequently not charged in relation and the complaint was found too be wanting in substance and the complaintant/Witness statements could not be corroborated,Hmmmm Funny that!!

Using the Sandra Staminova case as a template,Care too elaborate Steve??

Yes Jim is the man lets get him re-elected!!

[Billy]

Was he charged?

No Jimmy,He was not,As above.

[scott411]

Is it also true you intend to run the roadrace National series in the same manner you have become accustomed to with the TRRS whereby it has been stated by both Sidecar Bob and scrivy it runs at a loss ???

since when has its been the presidents job to run the road race series? isn't that the job of the commissioners at present,


also on the medical history, does the president take a personal look at all medical files of all 5000 members????? he must be a busy man if he does,

[White trash]

No Jimmy,He was not,As above.

So if he was investigated, and there was found to be no case to answer, why is this "assault" even being brought up in this argument?

Having been "investigated" by CYFS for the level of care myself and my ex-wife were providing for our then 16 month old first daughter was the most horrifying and stressfull time of my life. Thankfully CYFS saw the complaint for what it actually was and responded to the complainent the findings of their month long investigation. They also made sure to mention that any future malicious complaints against us would be forwarded to the police and action taken. Luckily for me, the incident doesn't keep popping into online forum posts (until now) and haunting me for absolutely no reason.

[Billy]

since when has its been the presidents job to run the road race series? isn't that the job of the commissioners at present,

YES THATS CORRECT SCOTT,I WAS JUST ASKING CHRIS IN REPLY TOO HIS EARLIER POST WITH HIS PLANS FOR THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

also on the medical history, does the president take a personal look at all medical files of all 5000 members????? he must be a busy man if he does,

I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THE PRESIDENT LOOKS AT ALL COMPETITORS MEDICAL RECORDS,PROBABLY NEED TO CONTACT JIM FOR FURTHER CLARIFICATION.

presidentmnz@ihug.co.nz

Is it not OK to ask a candidate questions? and why have you not picked the rest of the post to bits??

[scrivy]

If you go back through this VERY amusing thread far enough,You'll find a post from Kevin Goddard where he explains that bryce was suspended for breaching the code of conduct,While this is possibly not the fairest process to us as competitors,In this case the means did fit the end,This process was not introduced by the current administration but in this case I feel they used it appropriately.
Not the fairest?? But MNZ's mission statement is to be FAIR is it not??


The action was not instigated on the basis of a hearsay statement made on this site,Rather that statement gave them cause for further investigation and they obtained a statement from a top level Superbike rider that was on track and saw the incident unfold.
So.... action was taken against Bryce from a statement taken from a top level superbike rider. I guess thats more important than getting both sides of the story eh? Yet Tuckerman walked scott free from any disciplinary action from the Board. Why is that?? The police decided there was enough merit in the statements to investigate - and there was no wanting in witness statements as decribed by you billy. You just added that in there to deflect the problem. But it's bullshit.

Now lets see if Tuckerman should have been suspended by the Board. Or at least given a written warning.
Code of conduct offences:
(i) Threatening, abusing and/or assaulting any other member, competitor, MNZ or member club’s officers or officials (including stewards), MNZ staff members, other member’s guests, and/or spectators.
WELL, YES HE DID BREACH.

(ii) Any obnoxious, anti-social or criminal behavior, including using obscene language or gestures. No member may make any discriminatory, derogatory, or abusive comment about any other member, competitor, MNZ or member club’s officers or officials (including stewards), MNZ staff members, other member’s guest, and/or spectator.
WELL, YES HE DID BREACH.

(vii) Racial, sexual or other improper harassment of any other member or person.
WELL, YES HE DID BREACH.

(xii) Any act which is likely to diminish the good reputation of MNZ, its members (including any club), Officers, staff, or other officials.
WELL, YES HE DID BREACH.

And last, but not least,
• Staying cool – no matter what happens


Moral there is "some people cant see the wood for the trees" and need a more serious approach
So why didn't the Board take action then??

Sorry Billy, but the handling of Bryce's case was wrong.
Most of the western worlds legal system is built on a very simple premiss, that we are all innocent until proven guilty. Start fucking with that saying that the ends justify the means, and innocent people start getting fucked over.

Clearly, the MNZ Board acted very heavy handed, and as mentioned above, very double standard too. If they were to use the Code of conduct rule, then surely a warning or fine was satisfactory?? With a proviso that next time you're suspended!
This rule is an open ended invitation for the Board to do whatever the hell they want with only 1 persons input/statement (and no right of reply for the defendant). THAT is very UNFAIR.
I can see further cases going to the sports tribunal, costing MNZ lots of money in the process.

Its an open forum and everybodys entitled to an opinion,I did mention in the post that it probably wasnt the fairest way too deal with the situation,But I stand by the statement "the means justify the end" as clearly in this case as they did.
So you think shooting all burglars will stop burglary too?? PMSL!!

Being accused of anything is not good reason for a code of conduct charge,
But the Board did just that against Bryce! The rule is flawed as it does not allow dialogue from the affected party at all. Judge, jury and executioner springs to mind!

As Jim was consequently not charged in relation and the complaint was found too be wanting in substance and the complaintant/Witness statements could not be corroborated,Hmmmm Funny that!!
Very funny indeed Billy!! The police would not have investigated it if there was deficiencies in the statements offered!!!! Think about it dude!! That's just your slant again Billy.

Jim is the man. Yes he is, the man with an anger management problem with threats against several members and their teams. Yet the Board have taken NO disciplinary action at all against him, knowing he is bringing MNZ into disrepute. You would have at least thought a warning to rein him in, or an anger management coure???!!! Lets get him ousted, and some respectability back into our sport!!