2011 Budget

[mashman]

Honestly, you ignore one very salient point with this every time:

How am I supposed to know I'm better than my neighbours if I don't have more money/stuff??

I just know I am , I don't need to prove it and that "prove it" part in itself makes me better than "you people"... everything else is just cream and reaffirmation

[trustme]

back again eh ... I just want to set 1 thing straight, for the record . This is my perspective, not the perspective of any "collective" or "organisation" that currently promotes similar "ideals"... my "wanting" brain in action (what's your excuse "you people")... to that end...

There may be no need for a govt, not as we currently view it anyway. Although some "governing" body will be required to look after the interests of the country, both globally and internally.

No barter system. If something needs doing, someone just does it (think logistics department for recource management)... things WILL be planned and built/repaired/made to last, to exceptionally high standards and quality (no point in doing it otherwise).

Work. We work or the whole thing doesn't work (same as we do already, but without financial rewards :shit). It may well be that those who don't want to go on and study would be obliged (stolen from a recent govt getting the "sick" back into work) to choose some "community" based work i.e. do a bin run, maintain the drains etc... the incentive being more personal time than everyone else, maybe just working 2 - 3 hours per day, as opposed to "skilled" trades that may need to work 5 hours per day, I'm sure the logistics department would have a clearer idea of what is required.

As for greed, need, excess, want desire etc... that whole kettle of fish revolves around an education policy and how we "breed" the next generation. Educated in terms of "social responsibility" (as wanky as it sounds, it's what we currently do, just really really badly). Included in that education will be things like, sharing. Wanna go fishing for the weekend, go talk to the logistics department, see what boats are going out and if there's any room on them. Wanna go hunting, talk to logistics, see what's available. Want that smart wanky boat/yacht/lodge/bach etc... for the weekend, go talk to logistics. Everyone gets a shit at everything, as long as it's available. You don't need to own your own boat, especially when it sits there for 26 weeks of the year and someone else already has one... I'm sure you see where I'm going with that.

Gawd this is much easier to discuss than it is to type... at least you get "instant" clarification where things get all me shitty explanatory ambiguous... "Your people" would probably have different/better/smarter ways of running things within that sort of economy.

The idea really is, if someone needs something done, talk to logistics, then it gets done. No need for skill trade etc... by all means provide a few beers with a mate if you're taking some of his personal time (do you really give your mates beer in trade , or as a gesture)... courtesy and appreciation does not have to stop.

It'd make budget decisions a little easier.

I get it but I don't buy it. Human nature will not change with education.No matter how much you tell kids to share they still fight. If education was the key we could educate everyone to be rocket scientists, truth is some will never be rocket scientists as long as their arse points down, others will be rocket scientists or whatever they chose to succeed at , with or without education .Breeding won't change the nature of the beast. The idea is noble but doomed by human nature, wish it was otherwise.

[mashman]

I get it but I don't buy it. Human nature will not change with education.No matter how much you tell kids to share they still fight. If education was the key we could educate everyone to be rocket scientists, truth is some will never be rocket scientists as long as their arse points down, others will be rocket scientists or whatever they chose to succeed at , with or without education .Breeding won't change the nature of the beast. The idea is noble but doomed by human nature, wish it was otherwise.

I did had a largish spiel written out that disagreed with your assessment of what human nature is. But thought, fuck it, you've got a brain, it just works within the confines of todays society... I decided not to post it. Your post is utter tripe (apart from the fact that you get it)...

"You people" have no concept of what any given individual is capable of, you lump individuals into manageable categories without even considering why a particular individual has chosen that way of life... be it bludger, politician, engineer, doctor etc... But that's fine with me. I understand why. You read it in a book or heard it from your lecturers or see it in your politicians and see it on TV etc...

Education is everything. You will need an new education system to cater for the new way of life. When do kids become money aware? and why do they become money aware? What does money do to a society? Do you really think everyone wants to live like this? You underestimate people... and just because they don't want to be rocket scientists, or indeed have the mental faculty to achieve it,,, they must be useless... I dunno, "you people".

Until you change your view on human nature, none of what I post will make sense. But you are wrong

[Brian d marge]

Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains

famous dead guy said that....

Famous dead guy also said "The heart of the idea of the social contract may be stated simply: Each of us places his person and authority under the supreme direction of the general will, and the group receives each individual as an indivisible part of the whole..."

another dead guy had a thought that went like .......Ostendo primo conditionem hominum extra societatem civilem (quam conditionem appellare liceat statum naturae) aliam non esse quam bellum omnium contra omnes; atque in eo bello jus esse omnibus in omnia.

Translated , goes like this .......It was war on the terraces.. war on the terraces.....In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.


Never played for West Ham either of em ..... Smart buggers them ...

Stephen

[oneofsix]

At least someones super is safe from the budget cuts, no prizes for guessing who's though

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...nore-MPs-super

Good thinking these National Politicians, we should invest and cut spending so lets cut the amount we invest through Kiwisaver and call it a cut in spending.

[mashman]

At least someones super is safe from the budget cuts, no prizes for guessing who's though

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...nore-MPs-super

Good thinking these National Politicians, we should invest and cut spending so lets cut the amount we invest through Kiwisaver and call it a cut in spending.

why am I not surprised... so "they" represent "us", but the country (the flag not the people ) treats "them" as more valuable members of society than "us", even though "they" will have a shorter career than most of "us". Sounds fair

[superman]

Well Mr. Key says that growth in NZ wages will out do inflation unlike under the previous 9 years of Labour government. Sceptical? Very.

[jaffaonajappa]

why am I not surprised... so "they" represent "us", but the country (the flag not the people ) treats "them" as more valuable members of society than "us", even though "they" will have a shorter career than most of "us". Sounds fair

The changes dont affect those on the older style Super schemes. Seems kinda fair to me. Im on an older style super scheme - put up with years of crap sompared to the newer generation just so I can see this super. New fellas are on the new scheme. Older ones can stay on their old scheme (which they started before the new laws were made.).

Anyways - why does everyone always blame a governement for their financial predicament. Kiwis have been a social welfare state for generations now - its starting to cripple us. Perhaps if we stopped asking what the government can do to make us rich, and spend more time figuring out how to (legally) improve our own situations - we might get somewhere?

Dont believe this works? Have a look at the Asian countries over the last 50 year period. I still remember visiting Singapore - the kiwi dollar was heeeeps compared to their rice paper. We were the rich whities. Now....the roles are reversed - so we have this anti-asian attitude in our country.

Less Moaning, more working.
someone pass me that whip.

[puddytat]

Well there is a bit of a diferance between public & private debt & no doubt about it our private debt is way up there with the worst of them.
Personally I see it that National has no real intention of reducing public debt...why fuck with kiwisaver when it is only going to cut a bit over a weeks debt from our continued 350 mill a week borrowing....
The Nats are only paying lip service to the debt problem, because the longer it continues the easier it will be to justify selling our national assets, or allowing more big overseas business an easier ride in mining our sensitive areas for 4/5ths of fuck all.
The IMF & World Bank must be wringing their hands with glee & so are the Capitalist pigs as they watch the worlds resources fall inevitably into their hands.
Dont believe me? Portugal will be bailed out to the tune of 170billion on the proviso that they sell PUBLIC ASSETS
Mark my words,we're being set up to fail & I prophesize that if the Nats get in, the silverware will be sold off in the next Parliamentary term

Watched a great vid called Collapse the other day.....Michael Rupperts monologue explains how the lies & political propaganda fed to Americans by big business will eventually lead to human extinctionDue to the inexorable connection between energy depletion & the collapse of the economic system that supports the entire industrial world.
I watched shortly there after, David Attenborough who ,mild mannered & hugely respected as he is.....said the same thing.
Money is not going to solve the real problems facing our species.

[racefactory]

Well there is a bit of a diferance between public & private debt & no doubt about it our private debt is way up there with the worst of them.
Personally I see it that National has no real intention of reducing public debt...why fuck with kiwisaver when it is only going to cut a bit over a weeks debt from our continued 350 mill a week borrowing....
The Nats are only paying lip service to the debt problem, because the longer it continues the easier it will be to justify selling our national assets, or allowing more big overseas business an easier ride in mining our sensitive areas for 4/5ths of fuck all.
The IMF & World Bank must be wringing their hands with glee & so are the Capitalist pigs as they watch the worlds resources fall inevitably into their hands.
Dont believe me? Portugal will be bailed out to the tune of 170billion on the proviso that they sell PUBLIC ASSETS
Mark my words,we're being set up to fail & I prophesize that if the Nats get in, the silverware will be sold off in the next Parliamentary term

Watched a great vid called Collapse the other day.....Michael Rupperts monologue explains how the lies & political propaganda fed to Americans by big business will eventually lead to human extinctionDue to the inexorable connection between energy depletion & the collapse of the economic system that supports the entire industrial world.
I watched shortly there after, David Attenborough who ,mild mannered & hugely respected as he is.....said the same thing.
Money is not going to solve the real problems facing our species.

Thanks for that I'm just watching it now. Fucking mind blowing.

Michael Rupperts, David Attenborough, Colin Campbell and Max Keiser- these people need to be the ones running this planet. Weren't a significant population of the Greek people actually urging Max Keiser for president after his translated appearance on AlJazeera? I hope these people can educate the masses as much as possible. True prophets. I agree, it is not money that will solve the real problems.

[short-circuit]

Watched a great vid called Collapse the other day.....Michael Rupperts monologue explains how the lies & political propaganda fed to Americans by big business will eventually lead to human extinctionDue to the inexorable connection between energy depletion & the collapse of the economic system that supports the entire industrial world.
I watched shortly there after, David Attenborough who ,mild mannered & hugely respected as he is.....said the same thing.
Money is not going to solve the real problems facing our species.

You might be interested to read a book called The Selfish Capitalist by Oliver James - highly recommend it. I had this forum in mind as I read about the predominant political views and values (and the implications) in highly materialistic societies. NZ is pretty extreme by international standards - there's no two ways about it.

James' research indicates that NZ rates second highest in the world in terms of levels of emotional distress (after the U.S). The direct links he makes between this and the political and economic ideology that's been followed here since 1984 seem pretty compelling.

[mashman]

The changes dont affect those on the older style Super schemes. Seems kinda fair to me. Im on an older style super scheme - put up with years of crap sompared to the newer generation just so I can see this super. New fellas are on the new scheme. Older ones can stay on their old scheme (which they started before the new laws were made.).

Anyways - why does everyone always blame a governement for their financial predicament. Kiwis have been a social welfare state for generations now - its starting to cripple us. Perhaps if we stopped asking what the government can do to make us rich, and spend more time figuring out how to (legally) improve our own situations - we might get somewhere?

Dont believe this works? Have a look at the Asian countries over the last 50 year period. I still remember visiting Singapore - the kiwi dollar was heeeeps compared to their rice paper. We were the rich whities. Now....the roles are reversed - so we have this anti-asian attitude in our country.

Less Moaning, more working.
someone pass me that whip.

I dunno... "you people" believe that money is the answer to everything... which it blatantly isn't. I roar with laughter when they talk about extending the pensionable age... oh, but you have to because no "scheme" we have ever tried has kept up with the aging population . Does that not tell you something?

[jaffaonajappa]

I dunno... "you people" believe that money is the answer to everything... which it blatantly isn't. I roar with laughter when they talk about extending the pensionable age... oh, but you have to because no "scheme" we have ever tried has kept up with the aging population . Does that not tell you something?

Hmmm, I certainly agree with some of that. Money is not the answer to everything.
The countries spend-spend-spending habits is hurting tho.

The populations getting older? Ha - the last 20 or so governments have been told this problem was coming up - no one started anything early enough. Kudos to Kiwisaver tho - perhaps in 50 years time we may have our shyte sorted.

[mashman]

Hmmm, I certainly agree with some of that. Money is not the answer to everything.
The countries spend-spend-spending habits is hurting tho.

The populations getting older? Ha - the last 20 or so governments have been told this problem was coming up - no one started anything early enough. Kudos to Kiwisaver tho - perhaps in 50 years time we may have our shyte sorted.

tis why we give the govt our money, to spend spend spend... I remember hearing the same thing back in the mid 80's from the UK economists that were most likely laughed at... pensions to fail... so they had a property boom instead... sounds like vaguely familiar story ...

Gawd I hope it ain't 50 years. If living is this hard at the moment, for a vast majority of the population I'd venture, then it's gonna be a nightmare in 50 years... probably much earlier than that.

What we need is a Resolution

[racefactory]

What we need is insurrection.