Leaky buildings. Thinking of buying a post '95 home? Own one?

[dangerous]

is it possible for Birds (the winged variety) to be gay ?

and ummm

Is it true youre actually a ginga ?

yes and ummmm... fuk ya yes, no need to raise this again LOL

[Winston001]

....but ABOVE all the owners got what they wanted, after all the client is allways RIGHT ie: ya do what they want.

Interesting post Dangerous. Just picking up on the above, you know the client/customer is not always right. If you insisted a mechanic issue a WOF even though your brakes were stuffed, he would be a fool to agree. If an owner insisted a house be built flat on the ground with no membrane or drainage, you wouldn't expect to do that would you?

[Winston001]

Just to carry on with Dangerous point about the client's (unreasonable) demands, I understand middleaged old-school builders were often squeezed out in the 1990s and since. They would be asked to quote for a house, factor in the proper work needed to make it weathertight and find they were $50k higher than other builders.

The work often went to guys who were willing to cut corners and build exactly what was on the plan with nothing added. Developers put the pressure on too, nickel and dimeing the builders margin down to nothing with promises of the "next" job.

Its also interesting to note that leaky homes is mainly an Auckland problem. Some in Christchurch but sod all elsewhere in the South Island. Why should that be?

[dangerous]

Interesting post Dangerous. Just picking up on the above, you know the client/customer is not always right. If you insisted a mechanic issue a WOF even though your brakes were stuffed, he would be a fool to agree. If an owner insisted a house be built flat on the ground with no membrane or drainage, you wouldn't expect to do that would you?

well that would just be silly... what I mean is if they want falt roofs, parapits and no over hang... whos to say other wise.

Just to carry on with Dangerous point about the client's (unreasonable) demands, I understand middleaged old-school builders were often squeezed out in the 1990s and since. They would be asked to quote for a house, factor in the proper work needed to make it weathertight and find they were $50k higher than other builders.

The work often went to guys who were willing to cut corners and build exactly what was on the plan with nothing added. Developers put the pressure on too, nickel and dimeing the builders margin down to nothing with promises of the "next" job.

Its also interesting to note that leaky homes is mainly an Auckland problem. Some in Christchurch but sod all elsewhere in the South Island. Why should that be?

1st.. they aint 'unreasonble demands' as above.
2nd... cutting corners still goes on, corect other wise build cost would be to high and another builder gets the job.
3rd... its a lot worse in chch than one would think, IMO the humiderty in the north advancing the rotting slash moulds

A big problem in NZ with builders, unlike plumbers, sparkys etc... there is no licencing hence any one can claim to be a builder and construct a house in compertition with real builders, not only do you get a crap job it means if the real guy wants the job he has to cut corners.

[JimO]

Its also interesting to note that leaky homes is mainly an Auckland problem. Some in Christchurch but sod all elsewhere in the South Island. Why should that be?

i have been a solid plasterer in the building industry since 1975 and have seen some things come and go, i dont know of many leakers in dunedin, one has been in the paper lately the owners paid 515k moved in and immediately discovered that it leaked and they are currently trying to get the DCC to give them their money back because they issued a COC even though there were issues with the house during the build. they have been quoted 500k to fix it, another is the first rockote house done here around 10 years old and discovered to be leaking during a renovation, resulting in a major rebuild, luckily the owner can afford to pay for it, I have seen many architects plans showing parapets with plaster or similar finish up the face over the top and down the back to the roof or deck on a timber framed wall and no cover flashing on the top, last one i did i used butynol under the plaster on the top of the wall with no fixings through it. I have to say im a old school plasterer and dont have any time for anything over polystyrene or any of the miracle finnish plaster systems

[dangerous]

well Jim... ya right the 1-2mm rockcote type of plastering is shit house.. in all cases I find cracking very fine but the polly or hardies under it sucks and keeps on sucking the water in. Those parapits with no cover flashings start leaking from day one, as do the older type of window flashings.

For others infomation, that knob on the video in the 1st post tahe reckons its still going on is lacking info.
heres a list of what I have to be sure is done that is EXTRA to the way it was on parapits alone.
breather type building wrap (up over and down)
20mm cavity (sides)
sadle flashings (at each end of and junctions)
parapit flashing tape (over top and 20mm down each side)
cap flashing (over top and down each side 70mm with drip edge)
For as long as we build we will have issues, nothing is perfect

[JimO]

exactly as said in a earlier post you cant beat a wide soffit (eave) if the water cant get in the top it wont get in half way down the wall

[Quasievil]

in all cases I find cracking very fine but the polly or hardies under it sucks and keeps on sucking the water in.

how does the moisture get there in the first place?
buried it in the ground, no specified control joints plater to thin ?

[Winston001]

Farg guys, its scary reading what you say - but good too. I had a house built 14 years ago and had a hard time trying to understand Rockcote, polystyrene blocks, sheets etc. So many decisions to make and other places were being built using these technologies - BRANZ approved, so I thought they must be ok.

In the end I went for a McRaeway cottage with eaves, hardie-backer, and a solid plaster finish. Fortunately I had a good builder too who didn't cut corners.

[dangerous]

how does the moisture get there in the first place?
buried it in the ground, no specified control joints plater to thin ?

many ways, depending on the situation eg: windows, plaster to thin fine cracking porly fitted flashings and the water is in.
Parapits, if flashed through joins, rivits, the wind blows it under, water has a ability to drag its self in and up... or if no cap flashings again the plaster is to thin it cracks, paint fails plaster itself is porus and will soak it in.
A good example is a 2 story with a single story garage attached, a apron flasing sits behind the cladding the roofing under that, at the base of the apron it needs to be folded out onto the roof, big failings here we thought 13yrs ago this is fine... but no we now know we CANT trust sealents and metal contracts in heat loosening and cutting its way in, ponding is also presant in thes places and again water sucks its way in like a condor down the amazon.

new systems in these situations includes one piece plastic diverters and scuppers, again if not installed correct...

Id like to add in a lot of cases to leaking homes are not helped by lazy owners, gutters need regular cleaning (pooling causes rust and over flow inside) My pet hate plants and bushes growing against walls, cause moss mould to grow it dosent take much for the worn paint (caused by wind rubbing plants on the wall) to then allow the sucking in procedure to happen, again the warmth of the inner house and the cold out side helps all this.

Like ya leathers Quas, water gets in at the weakest point (stiching) if not corectly maintained the area quickly deterates getting worse each ride. Morel of the story... paint ya farking houses and traet ya bloody leathers.

[JimO]

i patched a house a while ago where a car had hit a house and found the bottom plate was black and mouldy, this house had gardens built up all around the house in some places 300 mm above the inside floor level, i showed the owner and told them they needed to remove the dirt away from the house, 2 years later still no change

[dangerous]

i patched a house a while ago where a car had hit a house and found the bottom plate was black and mouldy, this house had gardens built up all around the house in some places 300 mm above the inside floor level, i showed the owner and told them they needed to remove the dirt away from the house, 2 years later still no change

That black sooty shit.. highley hazardous, affects the lungs in a big way, we have to remove timber 1m out from any of this shit.

In chch a big issue is houses are built to low, no reason for it but the councile allows it, crazy as by the time gardens are built up and drive ways... trouble begins.

[BMWST?]

That black sooty shit.. highley hazardous, affects the lungs in a big way, we have to remove timber 1m out from any of this shit.

In chch a big issue is houses are built to low, no reason for it but the councile allows it, crazy as by the time gardens are built up and drive ways... trouble begins.

too low?as long as joists 300 mm of the ground is ok( i think),conc slab should be at least 225 from ground,150 if paved.Thats nzs3604 not something the council should have to check

[Brett]

The Linea stuff has "issues". Delamination being the primary one. This has been kept very quiet. Ingress of moisture is a bastard as the composition of the product allows this.
Some installers are disregarding the back of the product, yet coating this area is vital, also the joins have to be done exactly perfect. Anything less =
The manufacturer of the main product involved with monolithic claddings (& leaky homes) has created these weatherboards as a solution to their first fuck-up.


Timber weatherboards and timber framing.
The industry needs to address this issue at source. The pine grown here has been genetically modified to grow much faster than normal. The simple reason is $$$'s.
What we are being sold is extremely soft and weak compared to normal. Just look at the growth rings and ask yourself why they grow so fast.

I am skeptical of Linea's durability as it is unproven, HOWEVER, if the boards are installed correctly on cavity battens, then no, there should be no moisture ingress. It is believed that Linea *could* suffer from delineation, however I have not heard of a single case yet. (However, watch this space with interest).
It is manufactured very differently from the fibre cement sheet panels that have caused a large amount of the leaking issues, namely it is manufactured as a composite under pressure whereas fibre cement sheets were manufactured via layering of a cement/wood fibre blend.

On the timber front, I don't buy into this at all. There is nothing wrong with our pinus radiata trees. Installing kiln dried, chemical free timber however was a very stupid move. All structural timber installed now is stress gauged and required to be minimum H1.2 treated. It is now normal for all windows, lintels, top and bottom plates to be H3 treated.
The growth rate of timber is because we grow timber in a region that is generally warmer than other timber producing regions of the world such as the Northern USA and Canada. Our buildings are engineered around the stress gauged strength of our timber.
Nothing wrong with our weatherboards either. Timber exposed to the elements needs maintenance no matter where in the world it comes from. Timber has always suffered from rot and insects in particular, the only way to counter this is with property maintenance. Many older houses used hard woods both native and exotic for framing, fascia boards, weather boards etc. and they too suffer from rot, maybe at different rates, but the issue is still there.
I have spent a reasonable amount of time in different parts of the world and have looked at building methods wherever I have been, simply out of interest as it is my profession and I love architecture, design and construction. I can say with my hand on my heart that our building standards (leaky building issues excluded) are some of the very best in the world. Our level of finishes particularly is quite high compared to regions of Europe, Africa, Asia and even Aussie.

If you don't like timber (and some don't) then build out of masonry. Personally I think we don't building enough residential property out of concrete and steel. It doesn't have to be minimalist and cold in design either!

[Ocean1]

In the end I went for a McRaeway cottage

Which is what I built, about 18 years ago. With Douglas fir framing, wasn't too sure about that at the time but I believe it's still seen as an OK option.

Just sold the place, in fact.


Wonder if that bridge up t'road is vacant...