That surveillance bill thingymajig

[imdying]

That is precisely how National Socialism asserted its grip on Germany in the '30s.

I've no problem with that, I'll try to make sure I pick the right side along the way if that's the way it goes.

[oneofsix]

Well OO6 when it does look like it's going to change to the general detriment I'll worry about it then.

We're not in Britain but where's your evidence on the Brit surveillance issue? I've seen it used to reduce crime and when in conjunction with a Public Address system to actually stop crime.

When they have decided to change it to a genera; detriment you will be too late, don't forget you have to get past the general apathy before you can generate the mass great enough to even be noticed.

Arhh so you've seen the propaganda, or advertising is you prefer, on why surveillance is good but haven't seen any of the comments by people in the news etc complaining they couldn't get to use that same surveillance when things went wrong for them. Pays to look at both sides.

Goebbels was hugely aided by the fact that Germany was recovering from being beaten in a World War, had no direction or economic future and was therefore ripe for the picking. Don't forget the Nazis also burnt books in 1933 to destroy anything that was "un German".

I can't see any comparison of that here

That's because you don't see you might have swallowed their propaganda and you are happy waiting apathetically for things to get worse.

What's so bad about the police having to get a warrant to video on private property?

[Zedder]

fixed that for ya

I don't think there's voter apathy, people do vote. One of the big problems though is getting people to get out and protest against issues that do matter.

[oneofsix]

I've no problem with that, I'll try to make sure I pick the right side along the way if that's the way it goes.

You aren't Italian are you? Not much to like about the guy but one of his great quotes went something like 'it doesn't matter which side Italy enters the war on it will come out on the winning side'

[Bikemad]

I don't think there's voter apathy, people do vote. One of the big problems though is getting people to get out and protest against issues that do matter.

79.46% 2008 down from 80.92% 2005...........so if the other 20 odd % of voters actually voted............where would we be??? probably be a labour led govt as i reckon it would be their supporters that were too dumb/ lazy/broke to get up and go vote

[Zedder]

When they have decided to change it to a genera; detriment you will be too late, don't forget you have to get past the general apathy before you can generate the mass great enough to even be noticed.

Arhh so you've seen the propaganda, or advertising is you prefer, on why surveillance is good but haven't seen any of the comments by people in the news etc complaining they couldn't get to use that same surveillance when things went wrong for them. Pays to look at both sides.


That's because you don't see you might have swallowed their propaganda and you are happy waiting apathetically for things to get worse.

What's so bad about the police having to get a warrant to video on private property?

I do look at both sides. People will always complain that nothing is being done for them at a certain time. Maybe the cops were just too busy catching a major criminal to worry about Joe's place being vandalised or whatever. It's about priorities.

Happy waiting apathetically? Perhaps you're better off asking what I've done.

I joined MAG and marched down Queenstreet with the anti-mining protestors (plus worked with NZ Forest and Bird society to fight it) as well as protested the Foreshore and Seabed issue. I am still involved. Incidently the protest march was filmed by the cops. Big deal. I haven't had my door kicked in yet or been arrested because of it.

They can use surveillance all they like on me and if they've got the evidence that I'm going something illegal, then bring it on.

[oneofsix]

I do look at both sides. People will always complain that nothing is being done for them at a certain time. Maybe the cops were just too busy catching a major criminal to worry about Joe's place being vandalised or whatever. It's about priorities.

Happy waiting apathetically? Perhaps you're better off asking what I've done.

I joined MAG and marched down Queenstreet with the anti-mining protestors (plus worked with NZ Forest and Bird society to fight it) as well as protested the Foreshore and Seabed issue. I am still involved. Incidently the protest march was filmed by the cops. Big deal. I haven't had my door kicked in yet or been arrested because of it.

They can use surveillance all they like on me and if they've got the evidence that I'm going something illegal, then bring it on.

No wasn't referring to too busy, you will always get that. I was referring to asking for a copy of the tape or a copy to be viewed at a later date so there wasn't the urgency factor. More a case of not interested or not in the authorities best interest.

As for your march being filmed, you were in a public place so anyone can film you.

[Zedder]

No wasn't referring to too busy, you will always get that. I was referring to asking for a copy of the tape or a copy to be viewed at a later date so there wasn't the urgency factor. More a case of not interested or not in the authorities best interest.

As for your march being filmed, you were in a public place so anyone can film you.

Maybe so with the authorities, they can be very frustrating but as far as I know they have to respond to an official logged complaint. I'm not sure though that their idea of 'interest" is always the same as ours.

My point about the march being filmed was not about legality and private property. If the cops saw me acting criminally during the march I would expect to be arrested and if they had video proof then that's too bad for me. It's about acting criminally.

The same applies to private surveillance, although I can't think what the hell I'd be doing on my property that's illegal.

[Zedder]

79.46% 2008 down from 80.92% 2005...........so if the other 20 odd % of voters actually voted............where would we be??? probably be a labour led govt as i reckon it would be their supporters that were too dumb/ lazy/broke to get up and go vote

That's only two election years worth of numbers. What about the other years and what were the factors that caused the decrease?

NZ is actually in line with many other countries (Except the USA which can drop to below 60%) in terms of voter turnout of around 80%.

[Bikemad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electio...in_New_Zealand

all results at bottom of page

[oneofsix]

Maybe so with the authorities, they can be very frustrating but as far as I know they have to respond to an official logged complaint. I'm not sure though that their idea of 'interest" is always the same as ours.

My point about the march being filmed was not about legality and private property. If the cops saw me acting criminally during the march I would expect to be arrested and if they had video proof then that's too bad for me. It's about acting criminally.

The same applies to private surveillance, although I can't think what the hell I'd be doing on my property that's illegal.

You can't think of what illegal thing you might be doing? There is most likely plenty and if not well we can make something that you are doing illegal once we have the evidence. used to be regardless of the genders involved perhaps they could make doggy style illegal.

Rather than me using half arse sniping replies because I don't have the time to completely answer you try reading your way through this;
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/blog...-video-warrant

[Zedder]

You can't think of what illegal thing you might be doing? There is most likely plenty and if not well we can make something that you are doing illegal once we have the evidence. used to be regardless of the genders involved perhaps they could make doggy style illegal.

Rather than me using half arse sniping replies because I don't have the time to completely answer you try reading your way through this;
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/blog...-video-warrant

So you admit to using half arse sniping replies then? But at least you don't get all aggro and personal like some people on KB. I might read the info after I've finished this big fat joint......

[Zedder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electio...in_New_Zealand

all results at bottom of page

Thanks for that.

It looks ok to me, some fluctuations as expected and a bit of a downward trend over the last few voting years but that's happend before (You could have supplied a graph with trendline though, some people....)

What about the factors causing the fluctuations like I asked for? The fact that NZ has an aging population and things like weather etc do affect voter turnout.

[Winston001]

So what? They can spy on me all they want, I don't do anything that calls for me to arrested.

Video surveillance is just about everywhere anyway. If it helps keep me, my family, friends and the wider community safe from crims then I'm fine with it.

I agree and feel the same.

But...the issue is the individual's right to privacy and non-intrusion by the State.

Although Jim2 vastly exaggerated with his reference to Nazi Germany, there is a kernel of truth and warning in it. Granting wide surveillance rights to the State opens the door for corrupt individuals to abuse that right.

We need to tread carefully here.

[oneofsix]

So you admit to using half arse sniping replies then? But at least you don't get all aggro and personal like some people on KB. I might read the info after I've finished this big fat joint......

Oh yeah I admit it. The replies occur between phases of work so I don't/can't get as detailed as others, also not the way my mind works, when it works that is.