I go to bed every night and dream of another recession

[Brett]

You need to spin that to Adidas. I suspect Cadbury got the point, or did they, or have they just become more circumspect?

Their brands have taken a fuckin battering. Cadbury lost a LOT of business over the palm oil debarkle. I don't know about the losses Adidas has had over their not so little pricing hooha, but they certainly looked like a bunch of tits and their management really were made to look like idiots. Unfortunately, the extent of that issue was largely contained to NZ which is a rather small market. Unfortunately, I think that Adidas got away lightly unfortunately. If I was CEO, I would have fired a few people over that

[mashman]

If you don't look after yourself, don't expect anyone else too. Yes, theoretically I could have A house, A car/transport, necessary food, adequate clothing etc etc.

However for myself and my family, I want a NICE house, a car I enjoy driving (on the lookout for Audi RS4 Avant in black at the moment ), a bike that makes me grin from ear to ear, clothes that make me like the way I look, food that I both enjoy and that optimises my health, premium health care etc etc.
Do I absolutely need these things? Hell no, I can live with less, a lot less, and have done for extended periods of time. No big deal. However, I aspire to more. I don't want it given to me, I want to earn it with my ingenuity and hard work. Once I do earn it, I will/do also give back to those in need. There is a helluva lot of truth in the saying that "to whom much is given, much is expected". I believe that one day I will be judged for how I used the resources entrusted to me. This keeps my natural human greed and selfishness in check (a little bit).

Your family could still have nice things, as could everyone elses family. Why would anyone have to go without if money wasn't a factor? Build everything to the highest standard, once. I'm not questioning your motives as we all have thoughts about that which we can't afford (at the time). As you say, for some it's a driving factor. Took me 7 years to get the Prila.

If money isn't a factor, the brain drain would probably be much less of problem. Exceptional doctors wouldn't need to feck off overseas and leave us with just the great ones, same for teachers, IT geeks, the world class business people etc... giving your your "first class" healthcare, education etc... in fact they'd have to redefine "first class" for New Zealand, as it would be exceptional in comparison to the "first class" countries... or somefink like that We may even develop a car industry that would surpass the best that the world can offer... who knows, but we wouldn't be limited by money.

(on the lookout for Audi RS4 Avant in black at the moment)

NOMS (but I'd like red)

[mashman]

You need to spin that to Adidas. I suspect Cadbury got the point, or did they, or have they just become more circumspect?

Aye... Did it stop Nestle? Has BP gone out of business? We're a tiny market, and "they" know it

[Big Dave]

If

And there's the rhubarb.
You need a zombie apocalypse.

[mashman]

And there's the rhubarb.
You need a zombie apocalypse.

Yeah, Nah... I just need the current Zombies to realise that they aren't

[puddytat]

Im quite surprised that some nutter somewhere,instead of taking it out on his workmates or classmates hasnt gone "postal" at Goldman Sachs or some other dastardly corporation.....maybe its just a matter of time?

[YellowDog]

To the idealists I say: Unfortunately all those goodies would not exist if it were not for the capitalist system that runs the world. Some seem to think that you can have both, but you can't as they are interlinked.

Your well made computer with floppy disc drive etc. is obsolete, as are most of the other items, including your trusty Travant motorcar.

The items we lust after cost lots of cash and are made, developed, redeveloped, and improved so they are even more attractive; for those able to earn lots of cash.

That's why we don't run a nationwide Kibbutz:

[mashman]

To the idealists I say: Unfortunately all those goodies would not exist if it were not for the capitalist system that runs the world. Some seem to think that you can have both, but you can't as they are interlinked.

Your well made computer with floppy disc drive etc. is obsolete, as is most of the other items, including your trusty Travant motorcar.

The items we lust after cost lots of cash and are made, developed, redeveloped, and improved so they are even more attractive; for those able to earn lots of cash.

That's why we don't run a nationwide Kibbutz:

fuckn Zombie

Of course they'd exist. Do you recklon these things were developed with capitalism in mind? Some maybe, but by no means all... We are innovative by nature, always have been. We wouldn't have had 5 variations of the iphone, by now we'd have probably been on the equivalent of version 20 and it would have been the first release, PC's probably woulda died out 10 years ago. There would be no need to have to go out an buy a brand new hoover just because the new one has an anti-allergin feature, it would have been designed with that in mind etc... capitalism, imho, has slowed the whole process down and given us way more junk than a non capitalist attempt at techno evolution would have...

[Brett]

Your family could still have nice things, as could everyone elses family. Why would anyone have to go without if money wasn't a factor? Build everything to the highest standard, once. I'm not questioning your motives as we all have thoughts about that which we can't afford (at the time). As you say, for some it's a driving factor. Took me 7 years to get the Prila.

If money isn't a factor, the brain drain would probably be much less of problem. Exceptional doctors wouldn't need to feck off overseas and leave us with just the great ones, same for teachers, IT geeks, the world class business people etc... giving your your "first class" healthcare, education etc... in fact they'd have to redefine "first class" for New Zealand, as it would be exceptional in comparison to the "first class" countries... or somefink like that We may even develop a car industry that would surpass the best that the world can offer... who knows, but we wouldn't be limited by money.



NOMS (but I'd like red)

I follow your logic and theory completely, and yes it *would* be nice, but unfortunately, it was tried by a few socialist countries and didn't work. There are just far too many factors to list and they are exactly the ones that brought down communism, greed at the higher management levels, those who have better work ethics than others, limited resources etc etc.
It's the same reason why some people are poor (not all) and some are well off. Some are just willing to work harder to better their position than those around them.

Aye... Did it stop Nestle? Has BP gone out of business? We're a tiny market, and "they" know it

Unfortunately, this is too true. But their time will come. Unfortunately they are doing a whole lot of damage in the meantime. (to the environment, to their consumers and ultimately to their brand).

[YellowDog]

fuckn Zombie

Of course they'd exist. Do you recklon these things were developed with capitalism in mind? Some maybe, but by no means all... We are innovative by nature, always have been. We wouldn't have had 5 variations of the iphone, by now we'd have probably been on the equivalent of version 20 and it would have been the first release, PC's probably woulda died out 10 years ago. There would be no need to have to go out an buy a brand new hoover just because the new one has an anti-allergin feature, it would have been designed with that in mind etc... capitalism, imho, has slowed the whole process down and given us way more junk than a non capitalist attempt at techno evolution would have...

We'll just have to agree to differ on that one

[mashman]

I follow your logic and theory completely, and yes it *would* be nice, but unfortunately, it was tried by a few socialist countries and didn't work. There are just far too many factors to list and they are exactly the ones that brought down communism, greed at the higher management levels, those who have better work ethics than others, limited resources etc etc.
It's the same reason why some people are poor (not all) and some are well off. Some are just willing to work harder to better their position than those around them.

Unfortunately, this is too true. But their time will come. Unfortunately they are doing a whole lot of damage in the meantime. (to the environment, to their consumers and ultimately to their brand).

What socialist countries? Was the local economy entirely free in those countries?

Brand really doesn't mean anything negative these days though does it. I agree it can get damaged, but unfortunately there seems to be enough money behind the corporates, and influence, that a big brand can wear the loss and wait for the inevitability of human beings to forget about what caused the damage in the first place. I really wish that wasn't the case.

[mashman]

We'll just have to agree to differ on that one

no we won't.. you're wrong and you know it ... Hang on, i'll just pop into my time machine and find out... yep, I was right, a roaring success too

[Zedder]

Im quite surprised that some nutter somewhere,instead of taking it out on his workmates or classmates hasnt gone "postal" at Goldman Sachs or some other dastardly corporation.....maybe its just a matter of time?

I wish they would go postal on the nasties who work at Goldman Sachs, Lehman Bros etc and rid us of those who regularly play their paper money games, get huge bonuses and end up causing global financial mayhem when they stuff up.

[YellowDog]

no we won't.. you're wrong and you know it ... Hang on, i'll just pop into my time machine and find out... yep, I was right, a roaring success too

That's quite funny. My late father-in-law was a committed Marxist too and he would argue to the end of the whiskey bottle that the only reason the USSR failed was due to the, forced upon them, arms race with the USA. He also boasted that the Russians were leagues ahead at building space crafts.

Marxism is great for those slightly more equal than the others OR party menbers.

However not good if you have any ambition or ability OR just want to be able to make choices.

My Texan Taxi driver was one of the dumbest arses I've ever met. My taxi driver in Moscow spoke 3 languages and had two master's degrees. He was still a taxi driver though

[puddytat]

... capitalism, imho, has slowed the whole process down and given us way more junk than a non capitalist attempt at techno evolution would have...

Kinda agree there mashy.....the main purpose today seems to be the endless redesigning of the wheel....take Microsoft for an example.Or half the shit tools out there now.We used to manage quite well with a standard & philips head screwdriver, but now you need to have 27 different kinds just in case.
Shit bearings in everything & fuck all things designed to last longer than the warranty period.
Progress? Not always. Cheaper?Is definiely not better.Not when you have to buy 8.6 vacuum cleaners over a life time. My Mum brought a new Electrolux back in '67.....its still going.
Funny how Capatalism (Consumerism)now relies on Communism ,& vice versa.