All depends on how you choose to look at it then, and to me, that means it too close to call.Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback
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All depends on how you choose to look at it then, and to me, that means it too close to call.
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Enigma
Happily stolen from issue 84, 1992, of Motorcycle International and written by Cathcart.[/I]
Cagiva were deeply disillusioned as the Randy Mamola era drew to and end. Lawsons arrival revitalised the race team. From Day One Lawson demonstrated the level of commitment to excellence that had made him the most complete rider of the modern era, and the men at Cagiva responden in kind; they did it His Way.
Lawson's Way dictated a pace of development and a readiness to experiement that catapulted the red Italian bike ahead of Doohan by the fift race of the season.
The '89 bike was an animal, with an extreme 60/40 forward weight bias; traction was a constant problem, plus it was very nervous and twitchy even in a straight line, and braking hard woukld have the back wheel trying to flip the bike. And the engine was almost worse, with a razor edge powerband that came in sharply at 10000 and ended so abruptly at 12200rpm that you risked smashing the screen with your helmet.
With Fanali as a mechanic and Haslam as a rider, the Cagiva was much improved for 1990. A 53/47 weight distribution and a more sensible steering geometry aided stability, but they still had a traction issue. However, the engine now had 500 rpm overrev available for the first time, although low end power was still poor with a hole in the powerband between 9500 and 10000 rpm. A new and improved version was already designed before Lawson joined, but Eddie's constant inputs helped refine it further.
The '91 engine is much more user-friendly with 15% more torque at 8000 rpm, same power at 10000 and 3 % more top end power. It makes useable power from 7500 rpm and with an ability to overrev to 12800 rpm before power really begins to fall off. There is a big surge of power between 9000 and 11000 rpm that can be downtuned a bit with leaner jetting. Still, the Cagiva power delivery has rather too many layers - it needs to be more linear, and for the engine to pick up revs faster throughout the powerband.
Throughout 1991, Cagive made up 5 different basic chassis designs, six different versions of the cylinders and ten different exhaust pipe designs. When Lawson identified a front end problem most probably due to the engine being in the wrong place, chassis designer Botta were able to design and produce an all-new frame in two days flat!
The final edition of the chassis, designed by Albesiano to try and cure the front-end grip problem all Michelin runners were by then afflicted with is excellent. The bike puts the power down really well out of turns. It's a very nice bike ride, especially as a flat track like Pergusa wouldn't have exposed the front-end problem which clouded the end of the team's '91 season.
The head angle is variable one degree each side of the standard 24 degrees, and the swingarm pivot is adjustable, too. For 1992, the team planed to have a new variation which will enable the engine location to be varied in any direction to optimise weight distribution, thus eliminating the need to revamp the frame every time they want to try a different setup. At this stage, the Ferrari-built carbon fibre chassis employed in 1990 will likely make a reappearance in all new form. The fact that it cannot be modified like an alloy frame prevented its use in the evolutionary year.
Fully qualified Sifter.
Yeah but records go by race wins, not 3rd, 2nd or fourth places for the season.
Fully qualified Sifter.
Steddie Eddie is one of the all time greats! Stoner will win far more races than Eddie ever did. Maybe then...people will appreciate what they're seeing.
Hardcore Biker
Eddie is my ALL TIME HERO!
He always blamed himself and thanked his crew
I guess there were some strong words behind closed doors on accasions though
I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN
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Which records? I hear at least as much about rider championship titles as opposed to the win numbers.
Pretty much all the rest of motorsport scoring is done by the highest level data, having 9/10 fastest laps doesn't count for more than having the quickest overall time; having more wins doesn't count for more than having more overall points; so logically (to me), having more race wins or season points shouldn't count for more than the championship results. But I guess that is just how I choose to look at it
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
Ducatisti
Better in the 800 era but not overall! Stoner has a long way ahead to match the sheer number of wins/championships that Rossi has amassed over the years.
Stoner never even won a 125 or a 250 crown, and never had a chance to prove himself on the best bikes of all, the 500cc 2 Strokes! No gay traction control on those bad boys!
You've also got to remember that just because Rossi went to Ducati, it doesn't mean its the same bike that Stoner was riding!!!! A new bike every year, substantially different from the year befores to accomodate new rules/regulations. Stoner only got to ride an earlier incarnation of the bike Rossi took over!
Viva La Figa
Fully qualified Sifter.
Well for starters...Stoner never once had factory equipment whilst riding 125's or 250's. It's near on impossible to win in those classes without factory equipment.
When he did get factory equipment...he was on an 800cc GP bike. The rest...as they say, is history! And if you think Stoner relies on traction control to win, you obviously can't read. If that's the case, I just wasted time in responding.
Ducatisti
They all rely on electronic aids, some more than others but it goes without saying that the bikes are less of a handful today than they were in the 500cc era!
Stoner still has a way to go to better Rossi's records! Or Agostini's or Doohans!
Simple as that!
Rossi is coming to the end of his career, Stoner is in his prime and on the best bike out there! Not really a fair comparison. If the Ducati gets sorted, maybe Rossi will win another world championship, but then the Honda is currently so good it might not be possible!
Anyone who wins a World Championship is a riding god, but lets be clear Casey has a long way to go yet to prove greatness! I imagine he might well do it!
Viva La Figa
Never, never give in.
It probably is fair - as up to now, Stoner had to do it on the piece of shit Rossi & fans are blaming now.
It's OK to disagree with me. I can't force you to be right.
Ducatisti
When Stoner was winning on the Ducati in 2007, it was considerably better than most of the other bikes out there! Unfortunately the Ducati hasn't really moved on but all the others have! The current lap times of the Ducati are almost identical to previous years, but the Honda/Yam have bettered themselves by 1.5-2 seconds!
Viva La Figa
Hardcore Biker
It's now pretty much established that TC electrickery is not the be-all and end-all it is perceived to be.
Nowadays it's the engine management systems or more to the point the rediculous rule to limit fuel usage...that's always going to pander to the factory with the most resources.
Ducatisti
they must rely on it a fair bit:
Lorenzo had an issue with his traction control not being enabled due to some practice starts, something to do with the need to get past 2nd gear after a launch before it disables anti-wheelie and full TC kicks in. He opens the throttle expectiing it to sort out any slide and bang!
Viva La Figa
Hardcore Biker
Only in practice sessions bud,different story during a race where the power can be curbed back.He just got caught out by slightly cooled tyres,same as Rossi last year.
Forum whore
Um no he didnt he got caught out by doing a pratice start and only used 1st gear, traction control gets turned off when they hit the launch control button for doing starts and traction control gets reactivated once a gear change is made, he didnt change gear and when he turned the corner and gased it up he got more HP than he was expecting. The rest they say is history
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