Bimota YB8 Postie project sees the light of day

[codgyoleracer]

your bang on the money there, i would like to see a standard and that standard kept from both riders and governing bodies.. as you know glen im over its ok for one and not for the other hence why I brought up the fzr1000 as you know I dont have a issue with the bimota and as you can tell im very enthusastic about it, the complaining seems to come if people are worried they are gonna be thrashed or if noone alse has one, however when these bikes were made and raced i was 4 so my knowledge on them a limited and most likely im wrong however when a president has been made it should be kept not mid way thru a season etc etc

Really appreciate the support jono, and the paintwork looks effin stunn-ing. It looks fast just standing still and the crowd are gonna love your work.
I dont know about the thrashing the others bikes tho, there are some really good rider & bike combos coming in to the class and thats gonna be great for all and hopefully drag even more into it.

The classic boys have been the biggest crowd pullers in NZ for many many years now, & the coin invested in them shows why. Hopefully the post classics modern (ish) bikes can begin to build nationally and have ultimatly the same sort of following.

Now where do i get hold of an early 90;s Britten for my stable for the Pre95 class ?

GW

[worm13]

Now where do i get hold of an early 90;s Britten for my stable for the Pre95 class ?

GW[/QUOTE]

you can get 1/12th scale britten kitset model for 300 bucks if that helps?

[codgyoleracer]

Now where do i get hold of an early 90;s Britten for my stable for the Pre95 class ?

GW

you can get 1/12th scale britten kitset model for 300 bucks if that helps?[/QUOTE]

Churr Bro, now all i need to do is invent a particle displacement enlargment-ometer to make it full scale and i will be away...........

[Billy]

sorry billy wasnt meaning to upset people more just winding

Yea me too Jono !!!Got ya hook line and sinker LOL

[worm13]

ya bastard im not going fishing til saturday

[worm13]

you can get 1/12th scale britten kitset model for 300 bucks if that helps?

Churr Bro, now all i need to do is invent a particle displacement enlargment-ometer to make it full scale and i will be away...........[/QUOTE]

could always try it in one of your green houses... test your product that your selling haha

[Billy]

.

could always try it in one of your green houses... test your product that your selling haha[/QUOTE]


You mean hydroponics shed where he grows his drugs???

[malcy25]

Nah, its all good stuff mate, open talk and transparency is what the class needs. I think many are over the ducks n drakes brigade & look forward to the consistency & balanced view of MNZ in any serious matters and the rules for all classes.
That doesnt change a specialist club from having there own set of rules, though - however i would suspect that for the longer term if we all to work of a nationaly based set of rules it will build the class nationwide at a greater speed and will allow many more punters to get involved in what is a really fun class of nostalgia racing.

GW agree, though I've no idea what the ducks and drakes bit is about, I'm not close enough to it these days while I concentrate on my international career!!

There's enough info around on the YB6/8 being the same that I don't know what the fuss is about with GW's bike and I'm fizzing to see it run!

General comments around eligibility for those interested:

I don't think there has been anything malicious with any of the calls made by NZPCRA over the years, in fact I see the opposite. Most of the issues I have ever seen, hav been where people have pushed the limits and then got grumpy when they have been called on it.... the NZPCRA guys regularly have gone out of their way to help guys.

Most people just want other people riding legal period bikes and ejoying themselves.

With reference to a previous post by another poster here who seemed upset about someone from the NZPCRA allegedly contacting Bimota. If they did, get over it. Who said that the club is not allowed to ensure or investigate elligibiity of bikes themselves? They have a shit load of other members who are looking to them to ensure this sort of stuff and I have seen supposed "proof" from the manufacturer presented by a rider, that was so much bullshit and obviously so, the club was forced to do it's own digging to resolve the situation.

To resolve the age issue, I have previously suggested a remit be sumbmitted where we amend the NZ "dating" rule to that of the Aussies:
16.4.0.5 For the purpose of these rules “Year of manufacture” is defined as the year in
which:
a) For a road based bike the machine or its latest major component was first generally available for sale and delivery to the purchaser,
b) For a race bike the year in which the machine or the latest major component first appeared in open competition

This removes any issue around a "I saw a such and such prototype at such and such show in 1989" for a model that is truly a 1990 model.

Sometimes the cut off's exist for a good reason, or specific bikes noted for exclusion - the primary aim being a fundamental change in technology. Witness RZ350's, and VF750's - between them things like Perimeter frames, power valves, v4, watercooling, 16 inch front wheel, rising rate rear suspension. Yes, many things seen individually, just not so many on one bike. Arguably they "could" fit in pre 82 because of when they may have been first manufactured, but would they do the class a favour, or f..k it? Probably the latter.

The rules will never be perfect.

People need to work to the spirit of the class .

You give an inch at times and it causes a mile wide gap.

Decisions made now will come back and haunt in 2 years time.

What's wrong with working to a high authenticity?

When thinking about is something eligible, try passing it through these tests:
1) What benefit or advantage will it produce to the greater class or Post Classics?
2) Will it unduly penalise any particular rider or machine or machine type?
3) Will it unduly advantage any group?
4) Will it cause undue cost to any group?
5) Was it really like this within the period?
6) Is the performance that you are trying to limit a result of machine or rider?
7) What is the true performance potential in reality (ignoring rider) of a particular bike?
8) Left field? Eg what bikes that are out there that have been forgotten about that will arrive and bite us.
9) Will the change be easy to understand eg Joe punter spectator.
10) Is this mod going to drive every rider to do the same to keep up?
11) KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
12) At the risk of not creating a level playing field, is a proposed change going to create a situation whereby the "bike most likely to win" was never ever previously go to win a race in it's day?
13) Suggester benefit - eg what benefit does it provide the person suggesting?
(hint: if you get a few "no's" why would you allow it or change the rules!)

Will MNZ also take the same stance with the Classic racing rules that are in the same MNZ rule book and the same issues could (and have) arise?

I could go on for hours, but I'm bored now...

As you were!

[codgyoleracer]

GW agree, though I've no idea what the ducks and drakes bit is about, I'm not close enough to it these days while I concentrate on my international career!!

There's enough info around on the YB6/8 being the same that I don't know what the fuss is about with GW's bike and I'm fizzing to see it run!

General comments around eligibility for those interested:

I don't think there has been anything malicious with any of the calls made by NZPCRA over the years, in fact I see the opposite. Most of the issues I have ever seen, hav been where people have pushed the limits and then got grumpy when they have been called on it.... the NZPCRA guys regularly have gone out of their way to help guys.

Most people just want other people riding legal period bikes and ejoying themselves.

With reference to a previous post by another poster here who seemed upset about someone from the NZPCRA allegedly contacting Bimota. If they did, get over it. Who said that the club is not allowed to ensure or investigate elligibiity of bikes themselves? They have a shit load of other members who are looking to them to ensure this sort of stuff and I have seen supposed "proof" from the manufacturer presented by a rider, that was so much bullshit and obviously so, the club was forced to do it's own digging to resolve the situation.

To resolve the age issue, I have previously suggested a remit be sumbmitted where we amend the NZ "dating" rule to that of the Aussies:
16.4.0.5 For the purpose of these rules “Year of manufacture” is defined as the year in
which:
a) For a road based bike the machine or its latest major component was first generally available for sale and delivery to the purchaser,
b) For a race bike the year in which the machine or the latest major component first appeared in open competition

This removes any issue around a "I saw a such and such prototype at such and such show in 1989" for a model that is truly a 1990 model.

Sometimes the cut off's exist for a good reason, or specific bikes noted for exclusion - the primary aim being a fundamental change in technology. Witness RZ350's, and VF750's - between them things like Perimeter frames, power valves, v4, watercooling, 16 inch front wheel, rising rate rear suspension. Yes, many things seen individually, just not so many on one bike. Arguably they "could" fit in pre 82 because of when they may have been first manufactured, but would they do the class a favour, or f..k it? Probably the latter.

The rules will never be perfect.

People need to work to the spirit of the class .

You give an inch at times and it causes a mile wide gap.

Decisions made now will come back and haunt in 2 years time.

What's wrong with working to a high authenticity?

When thinking about is something eligible, try passing it through these tests:
1) What benefit or advantage will it produce to the greater class or Post Classics?
2) Will it unduly penalise any particular rider or machine or machine type?
3) Will it unduly advantage any group?
4) Will it cause undue cost to any group?
5) Was it really like this within the period?
6) Is the performance that you are trying to limit a result of machine or rider?
7) What is the true performance potential in reality (ignoring rider) of a particular bike?
8) Left field? Eg what bikes that are out there that have been forgotten about that will arrive and bite us.
9) Will the change be easy to understand eg Joe punter spectator.
10) Is this mod going to drive every rider to do the same to keep up?
11) KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
12) At the risk of not creating a level playing field, is a proposed change going to create a situation whereby the "bike most likely to win" was never ever previously go to win a race in it's day?
13) Suggester benefit - eg what benefit does it provide the person suggesting?
(hint: if you get a few "no's" why would you allow it or change the rules!)

Will MNZ also take the same stance with the Classic racing rules that are in the same MNZ rule book and the same issues could (and have) arise?

I could go on for hours, but I'm bored now...

As you were!

Hi Al
Yip, personally i think NZPCRA have to be thanked for providing both the guidleines for the later era classes and volunteering a hell of a lot of time over the years to promoting and establishing the concept in good ole NZ. The true colours and open-mindness of the NZPCRA are also shown in the fact that the "cut n paste" rules which are now in the realm of MNZ are there for all to benefit from nationwide.

This would never have occured if the club was inward thinking and overly protective aye.
(not sure if MNZ know what they have taken on though ............ :-) )

Your 13 points of "self questioning" are a great reference guidline IMO. And of course any competitor or appointed official should always feel comfortable to raise matters of eligabilty or legality by following the process and mnz rules/guidleines that are in place already for such things.

Its been my experience that petty and frivilous issues are dealt with very quickly.

The ducks n drakes comments are provoked by those of us that would prefer to talk behind peoples backs and in hushed chinese whispers. I do not include anyone that has posted in this thread as one of those people - because this thread is a public forum and is open to all to read!

The (silver) Bimota is coming................ :-).

BTW, who's OWO1 is Pav riding ?

GW

[Grumph]

Broadly I'm in agreement with a large part of what you say...this thread has been a catalyst for sorting some much needed changes I hope.
What the NZPCRA have got to realise is that once you formulate a set of rules and they go in the book they're no longer your baby...they are what the whole country must abide by. You can of course do a "register" on the rest of the country and run closed to club meetings to alow you to tweak the rules to suit yourselves without the bother of putting remits through....
Once they're in the book enforcement becomes the duty of MNZ.....

Fine to want to abide by the spirit of the rules but in the real world what's in the book is IT, period.
Fix the book first.

I'm of the opinion that NZPCRA have no idea how many Post classic bkes or competitors are out here racing to the rules as they stand.Those non PCRA members want a say on the rles they race under too....and can very easily do it. The NZPCRA may very well find the rules in the book are not what they envisioned...

[crazy man]

[QUOTE=malcy25;1130192210]With reference to a previous post by another poster here who seemed upset about someone from the NZPCRA allegedly contacting Bimota. If they did, get over it. QUOTE]l just dont want this turning into the kind of thing that happen with john britten l used to go to alot of committee meeting and it was all about what we can do to stop or make his bike uncompetitive sad really! l know GW has put a lot of work into the bike and has a lot of documentation to prove what it is ( why not just ring him first)

[malcy25]

[QUOTE=crazy man;1130192564]

With reference to a previous post by another poster here who seemed upset about someone from the NZPCRA allegedly contacting Bimota. If they did, get over it. QUOTE]l just dont want this turning into the kind of thing that happen with john britten l used to go to alot of committee meeting and it was all about what we can do to stop or make his bike uncompetitive sad really! l know GW has put a lot of work into the bike and has a lot of documentation to prove what it is ( why not just ring him first)

Crazy man
GW's a fine upstanding citizen - one of the few in this world I would let ride my bikes (and as anyone who knows me, that does not come lightly) and I'd be happy to accept what info he would provide. But I see no harm in the NZPCRA having their own independently sourced data as the club would be remiss to the rest of the members if they didn't do their own due dligence. No I haven't been in contact with Bimota....

I know of no attempt at any time by any committee member to outlaw a bike that was seen to be "fast", including one that I had a hand in getting to the grid that had clear and very obvious straight line speed on every bike in the class. The NZPCRA has never worked that way. I see that attitude as a problem with the individual people, not the club.

Grumph, I have written and amended a number of the rules in the rule book over the years and I can tell you it is one of the hardest written things I have done. Note that in a previous life, I used to assemble and negotiate service / supply contracts as part of my job relationship managing large corporate customers. You will never have perfection. You are more than welcome to have a crack too. If you see a problem, don't leave us guessing or the problem hanging, you have the same rights as I do to request a rule change. One adage I adhere to is "don't tell me a problem, tell me the solution." In motorcycling I have seen so many times "I don't like this" but very rare to get told what they would prefer to see, or the change initiated.

I am interested in what changes you think need to be made.

I have reminded over the last 10 years or more to the various committee members of the NZPCRA (and I have been on the committee in various forms and was a notional president early on) that these are not club rules from the day they went into the rule book. I agree with them being in the rule boo as it gives them weight enforcability and wide awareness. Yes they are now MNZ rules and at best the NZPCRA have been caretakers on thn basis of being te one largest body associated with them (and were originally created by the originators of the club), but correct they don't own them. But given they represent a major body, I would hope they are given the respect they deserve for the knowledge they hold, the work they have done, and the membership base they represent (which IS across the whole of NZ, not just north of the Bombays).

Disclosure Statement. I am not an elected official of the NZPCRA.

Codgy. I can confirm, Pav's not riding my OW01....Phillip Island Pre 89 class at 2012 event is a go too!! But I'm not taking a pre 89 bike (pre 82 only for me). The BIM be ready to go?

Sorry, another lengthy reponse everyone.

[codgyoleracer]

Just about every poster in this thread are confirmed bike nutters. For me thats a very pleasing thing to see, as often on here all we have is keyboard heroes that havent got a clue about bikes, riding them fast and what it takes to do that year in & year out - The downside to these nutter types is often they are quite forthright and emotive!

My wee project will hopefully bring something more to this class and assist in lifting the classes profile in the media, in the specators eyes and drive riders to strive to better their own projects and riding. (I am still learning myself) :-)

I accept the extra pressures of choosing a make / model that was on the cusp of the era's end, but in some respects in a perverse way it sorta adds my own drive to do well. I have no interest in pissing people off, but i do enjoy owning and campaigning something "a bit special", - and Al i suppose you do to given your own collection of toys.
I hope the boys that are building the same YB8 models up in aussie have dotted their I's & crossed their T's !

Al, the new era class option for me at PI is a bit tight to all get together unfortunatley (and i am even still undecided on doing the NZ nats on the old F3 bike this year). WORK HAS BEEN A PAIN ! -in a good way though, as it just bought me a shock for the Bimota :-).

Crazyman - stay off the home brew LOL

GW

[malcy25]

My wee project will hopefully bring something more to this class and assist in lifting the classes profile in the media, in the specators eyes and drive riders to strive to better their own projects and riding. (I am still learning myself) :-)

I accept the extra pressures of choosing a make / model that was on the cusp of the era's end, but in some respects in a perverse way it sorta adds my own drive to do well. I have no interest in pissing people off, but i do enjoy owning and campaigning something "a bit special", - and Al i suppose you do to given your own collection of toys.GW

Awesome! Keep going GW!

Yep, it's the variety and special bikes I love, as my garage testifies...there are some freakin' great non main stream bikes that should be racing we don't see yet.

See ya soon.

[Grumph]

Malcy25 - again i agree with most of what you say. Rules...ha, the Motorcycles techical section is still largely as I rewrote it in the '80's as a remit from Canterbury, you could say I've been there...
I've been in contact in the past with peter Smith pointing out some problems in the rules. I have no idea if anything was discussed subsequently.
While not currently on a club committee I'm informed that at least one SI club is looking hard at putting forward some alterations.

As I said there's a lot of bikes and rider out here not PCRA members. It would be interesting to find out just how the active racers break down by area and club...