Occupy Dunedin?

[mashman]

Like I said you know nothing of human nature.

Whilst that is a statement of fact, I see nothing to back it up... have you gone all Oscar on me?

[avgas]

it should be noted too that with money not being the motivating factor, people will tend to do work they enjoy rather than doing work that brings the $$$ & because of this, tend to obviously not only have a better/happier life but also tend to do a better job, as it's something they enjoy/are passionate about not just "something to pay the bills" or to keep a "lifestyle".

Two ways street also though. While money is a motivator, it is also a need. Take the need away and people are more likely to tell their boss to get fucked more often.
I certainly wouldn't take the shit I take if money wasn't a factor.
There was a study that found while people are motivated by stuff....there is a borderline of where they will take all amounts of shit you can deal with them as you have satisfied their basic needs. Right now I need my current income.........so I work in a job I am not happy about, and I get crap I don't want.
I suspect I am not alone. So remove money - it would become musical jobs as no job is perfect.

Not to mention all the engineers, doctors etc who are only 80% (or less) enthusiastic about their job will become architects and gardeners.

[avgas]

Like I said you know nothing of human nature.

The more I am aware, the less I know.
There are the unknowing educated and the naive who know less.

Its the one thing my education has taught me to always be true. So if someone claims to you to be all knowing about a subject - chances are they are the naive.

A little joke that always made me giggle was:
"Little Johnny was plotting his running, he had time on the x, distance on the y......but the imaginary number plane went right over his head."

[BoristheBiter]

Whilst that is a statement of fact, I see nothing to back it up... have you gone all Oscar on me?

You think that people will do "whats good for the country".
You think that everyone will do the jobs we hate.
You think that people will do the high risk jobs for the same reward.
You think that people will put other people/family on the same level as their own.
These the things you have to have happen for your idea to even have the remote possibility to work.

when it comes down to it we are an animal species, we need food, shelter, security and the continuation of our genetic line.
And we will do anything to have that, even if that means being above someone else.

[mashman]

You think that people will do "whats good for the country".
You think that everyone will do the jobs we hate.
You think that people will do the high risk jobs for the same reward.
You think that people will put other people/family on the same level as their own.
These the things you have to have happen for your idea to even have the remote possibility to work.

when it comes down to it we are an animal species, we need food, shelter, security and the continuation of our genetic line.
And we will do anything to have that, even if that means being above someone else.

They will.

You think that everyone will do the jobs we hate. They already do and they aren't well paid.
You think that people will do the high risk jobs for the same reward. They already do and they earn much less than plenty of others who do less risky jobs.
You think that people will put other people/family on the same level as their own. We already do. The majority of us already do... Tis only the snobby idiots that don't... those who value $$$ over people. Luckily a minority.

All of these things already happen where the "rewards" aren't even remotely equitable.

Finally you make some sense... Why do we feel the need to be above someone else? Is that the majority?
And if we will do anything, as you say, then why won't we try my idea?

[RDJ]

In case you haven't heard, President Obama wants the wealthiest to pay more in taxes.

He (Obama who is in the 1%) and his superrich buddies Buffet and Pelosi and Kerry and Gore and so forth / ad nauseam can pay more taxes any time they want to, there is in fact even a box to tick on the Inland Revenue tax return form to give money to the US government. What is stopping them from doing so right now? (rhetorical question, we all know what's stopping them).

[BoristheBiter]

They will.

You think that everyone will do the jobs we hate. They already do and they aren't well paid.
You think that people will do the high risk jobs for the same reward. They already do and they earn much less than plenty of others who do less risky jobs.
You think that people will put other people/family on the same level as their own. We already do. The majority of us already do... Tis only the snobby idiots that don't... those who value $$$ over people. Luckily a minority.

All of these things already happen where the "rewards" aren't even remotely equitable.

Finally you make some sense... Why do we feel the need to be above someone else? Is that the majority?
And if we will do anything, as you say, then why won't we try my idea?

Hence my opinion that you know nothing of human nature.

If someone isn't rewarded for doing a shit, or high risk job do you really think that it will get done if they don't.

I wasn't putting a $ value on people i was putting a ranking on them.

Question: your mother and someone else's mother are in front of a firing squad. you can save only one. which one do you choose?

[mashman]

Hence my opinion that you know nothing of human nature.

If someone isn't rewarded for doing a shit, or high risk job do you really think that it will get done if they don't.

I wasn't putting a $ value on people i was putting a ranking on them.

Question: your mother and someone else's mother are in front of a firing squad. you can save only one. which one do you choose?

Yes, why wouldn't it get done? If someone is prepared to do it already, why wouldn't they continue to do it, just because they aren't getting paid?, nooooooo... and as a form of trade-off, they'll be eradicating poverty, drastically dropping the crime rate and making NZ "safer", removing NZ from the possibility of the bank driven financial meltdown and the associated civil unrest that obviously occurs as well as getting as much potential as possible from the upcoming generation. Not a good enough reason? Where do most accidents happen? In the home. Fucksake, may as well be doing something risky if that's the gauntlet you're going to run every time you step out of bed. Yes, I do think shit will get done.

Why are you ranking people? So that they can feel superior to someone else? see the afore mentioned snobby idiots snip.

Maybe I'd take the bullet. Question: what the fuck are your and my mother doing in front of a firing squad?

[mashman]

He (Obama who is in the 1%) and his superrich buddies Buffet and Pelosi and Kerry and Gore and so forth / ad nauseam can pay more taxes any time they want to, there is in fact even a box to tick on the Inland Revenue tax return form to give money to the US government. What is stopping them from doing so right now? (rhetorical question, we all know what's stopping them).

And yet Buffet seems to be wanting to do just that, but on a countrywide scale. I hope they do it as it will buy some time.

[oldrider]

They will.

You think that everyone will do the jobs we hate. They already do and they aren't well paid.
You think that people will do the high risk jobs for the same reward. They already do and they earn much less than plenty of others who do less risky jobs.
You think that people will put other people/family on the same level as their own. We already do. The majority of us already do... Tis only the snobby idiots that don't... those who value $$$ over people. Luckily a minority.

All of these things already happen where the "rewards" aren't even remotely equitable.

Finally you make some sense... Why do we feel the need to be above someone else? Is that the majority?
And if we will do anything, as you say, then why won't we try my idea?

if we will do anything, as you say, then why won't we try my idea? ....

You think you have found some potential customers but obviously you haven't found a "buyer" yet!

Producing something you can't sell is just part of the commercial equation .... if you continue in that mode eventually you will go broke!

[mashman]

if we will do anything, as you say, then why won't we try my idea? ....

You think you have found some potential customers but obviously you haven't found a "buyer" yet!

Producing something you can't sell is just part of the commercial equation .... if you continue in that mode eventually you will go broke!

Not sure I completely follow what you mean there J. Can I have the same thing please, but hold the cryptic.

[Oscar]

Whilst that is a statement of fact, I see nothing to back it up... have you gone all Oscar on me?

Yes, he's quite normal.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes, why wouldn't it get done? If someone is prepared to do it already, why wouldn't they continue to do it, just because they aren't getting paid?, nooooooo... and as a form of trade-off, they'll be eradicating poverty, drastically dropping the crime rate and making NZ "safer", removing NZ from the possibility of the bank driven financial meltdown and the associated civil unrest that obviously occurs as well as getting as much potential as possible from the upcoming generation. Not a good enough reason? Where do most accidents happen? In the home. Fucksake, may as well be doing something risky if that's the gauntlet you're going to run every time you step out of bed. Yes, I do think shit will get done.

Why are you ranking people? So that they can feel superior to someone else? see the afore mentioned snobby idiots snip.

Maybe I'd take the bullet. Question: what the fuck are your and my mother doing in front of a firing squad?

OK if you remove the incentive to work, why would you carry on doing it?
You make all jobs the same, so I stop picking up rubbish to become a doctor as i will be paid while i train. it will take me forever or never as I am just not that smart.
But that doesn't matter as I am still doing something. But no one is picking up rubbish so now we live in a place that's covered in rubbish.

You still haven't answered the question. Who would you choose in your "holier than though everyone is the same ideals"?

[mashman]

OK if you remove the incentive to work, why would you carry on doing it?
You make all jobs the same, so I stop picking up rubbish to become a doctor as i will be paid while i train. it will take me forever or never as I am just not that smart.
But that doesn't matter as I am still doing something. But no one is picking up rubbish so now we live in a place that's covered in rubbish.

You still haven't answered the question. Who would you choose in your "holier than though everyone is the same ideals"?

The incentive to work will have to be replaced with a moral obligation (that's about the only succinct way I can phrase it), or vocationally, most likely a combination of the two. If WE don't work, then the potential is for everything to fall apart (as there is with the financial system), only less likely because if I chose not to work, everyone else will probably carry on, whereas if money stops work, no-one will do anything according to you.

All jobs the same? Paid what?
How's about everyone is picking up rubbish, or even not dropping it in the first place? From the everyone picking it up perspective I mean, one night a year you will be required to sweep the streets. You need 364 people in any given area to accomplish that task. Maybe you'll only be required to do it every 3 years or 4, or once a lifetime, dunno... same would go for most perceived "shit" jobs, so you may spend a total of 1 week per year doing communal chores. If that's all it takes, yes I would do that in a heartbeat. Obviously you wouldn't, because you wouldn't want to, but then I wouldn't expect that of those who value others less than the condition of their precious nails and superiority complex.

I'll flip a coin, or I'll get the mothers to discuss it between themselves and when the firing squad fall asleep, i'll free them both.

[BoristheBiter]

The incentive to work will have to be replaced with a moral obligation (that's about the only succinct way I can phrase it), or vocationally, most likely a combination of the two. If WE don't work, then the potential is for everything to fall apart (as there is with the financial system), only less likely because if I chose not to work, everyone else will probably carry on, whereas if money stops work, no-one will do anything according to you.

All jobs the same? Paid what?
How's about everyone is picking up rubbish, or even not dropping it in the first place? From the everyone picking it up perspective I mean, one night a year you will be required to sweep the streets. You need 364 people in any given area to accomplish that task. Maybe you'll only be required to do it every 3 years or 4, or once a lifetime, dunno... same would go for most perceived "shit" jobs, so you may spend a total of 1 week per year doing communal chores. If that's all it takes, yes I would do that in a heartbeat. Obviously you wouldn't, because you wouldn't want to, but then I wouldn't expect that of those who value others less than the condition of their precious nails and superiority complex.

I'll flip a coin, or I'll get the mothers to discuss it between themselves and when the firing squad fall asleep, i'll free them both.

I give up.
You are either stupid as mud to think this would work, walking around with a rose tinted glassed view of human nature or just trolling, either way I'm done.