Something to think about now and before the next election!

[superman]

Your statements are indicative as to whats wrong in NZ today - if it doesn't effect me I don't give a shit mentality NZ'ers have developed in what was once a great caring and sharing society

Hey I care about important things that don't affect me.

The Anti-smacking law, and the Copyright Amendment Bill don't particularly disturb me, perhaps the latter with the rushing in of such legislation. But other than that I don't find either law particularly unjust.

There are ways of disciplining a child without physical force, therefore why not in a country which has terrible child abuse statistics not say keep it clean all the time? Just as with training a dog, physical force isn't required. It's lazy training.

Copyright Amendment, well the Movie/TV/Music industry wanted something. Our laws on copyright were outdated given the new ways we can obtain such media. The law was rushed through which is my only real issue with it. Other than that it should be media moguls rights to somehow punish people who illegally obtain the media they have created.

[schrodingers cat]

Well, for me and you did ask, it would be Social credit's monetary system and Libertarianz general policies!

They might take a bit of tying together but if you use "swoop's" 5 monkey theory and clean the cage out first, we might just get somewhere!

Thanks - a straight answer on KB is pretty rare!

The major problem as I see it with the 5 Monkey clean out is what (who) fills the vacuum?

And having a crew ready to fill the void from the goodness of their hearts? I think thats called a coup. V popular in the banana republics and hotter countries.

[puddytat]

Well I think the next three years may be some of the most devisive & unruly since the 50's.....
alot of folk are getting organised to take the Govt. on directly over some of their policy,& I mean directly.......
Meanwhile i'll be getting my shit together for when it hits the fan & it all turns to custard.

[oneofsix]

Hey I care about important things that don't affect me.

The Anti-smacking law, and the Copyright Amendment Bill don't particularly disturb me, perhaps the latter with the rushing in of such legislation. But other than that I don't find either law particularly unjust.

There are ways of disciplining a child without physical force, therefore why not in a country which has terrible child abuse statistics not say keep it clean all the time? Just as with training a dog, physical force isn't required. It's lazy training.

Copyright Amendment, well the Movie/TV/Music industry wanted something. Our laws on copyright were outdated given the new ways we can obtain such media. The law was rushed through which is my only real issue with it. Other than that it should be media moguls rights to somehow punish people who illegally obtain the media they have created.

Ok so it wasn't a case of doesn't affect me so I don't care it is more a case of accepting the lies.

The anti-smacking law was meant to help prevent child abuse, s indicated in your reply, but instead does nothing for real abuse and diverts resources to bad discipline. Surely bad discipline would be better handle by better support for parents, oh shit thats right the realization hit "the experts" recently.

Copyright was meant to protect and encourage originality and creativity, the copywrite amendment protects over pricing and limit releasing by the media moguls. It stymies originality and creativity and artists have to 'buy' their success by selling their souls to the moguls.

Dig a bit deeper than the political spin.

[mashman]

Well, for me and you did ask, it would be Social credit's monetary system and Libertarianz general policies!

I still, even after reading the website, following the links to the original creator, following the links from there to more theory, I still don't see how this works in practical terms in regards to valuing jobs i.e. CEO gets more than a bin man, Doctor gets more than a teacher etc... who decides who's effort has more worth than someone elses? How would our economy work in regards to the rest of the world economy? Serious questions that I can't find straight answers to.

There are ways of disciplining a child without physical force, therefore why not in a country which has terrible child abuse statistics not say keep it clean all the time? Just as with training a dog, physical force isn't required. It's lazy training.

You should change your name to supernanny

[oldrider]

I still, even after reading the website, following the links to the original creator, following the links from there to more theory, I still don't see how this works in practical terms in regards to valuing jobs i.e. CEO gets more than a bin man, Doctor gets more than a teacher etc... who decides who's effort has more worth than someone elses? How would our economy work in regards to the rest of the world economy? Serious questions that I can't find straight answers to.

Question 1. Are you not at all familiar with organisations such as "Hay" (sp) associates, it is difficult but not rocket science to size and evaluate jobs!

Of course this is probably another area that could benefit from the 5 monkey treatment too! (there is probably no end to that!)

Question 2. How would our economy work in regards to the rest of the world economy?

That's a good question and always an impediment to progressive discussion on the subject but NZ didn't collapse when the Lange government went "no nuclear" did it and it certainly pissed the big boys off didn't it!

I guess there would be a period of adjustment as the rest of the world caught on and up, monkey see monkey do!

Don't you think it would be worth it to see the (real) world 1% kicked into touch? We have led the world in the past, we can do it again!

[mashman]

Question 1. Are you not at all familiar with organisations such as "Hay" (sp) associates, it is difficult but not rocket science to size and evaluate jobs!

Of course this is probably another area that could benefit from the 5 monkey treatment too! (there is probably no end to that!)

Question 2. How would our economy work in regards to the rest of the world economy?

That's a good question and always an impediment to progressive discussion on the subject but NZ didn't collapse when the Lange government went "no nuclear" did it and it certainly pissed the big boys off didn't it!

I guess there would be a period of adjustment as the rest of the world caught on and up, monkey see monkey do!

Don't you think it would be worth it to see the (real) world 1% kicked into touch? We have led the world in the past, we can do it again!

heh, I get the idea behind the job sizing, but the value being assigned is what concerns me. Are politicians still going to be valued twice that of teachers etc...? After all, isn't that what the 99% are concerned with? irrelevant concern perhaps? 8 hours should be 8 hours irrespective of position/status etc...

@impediment... aye, tis only an impediment if people make it so though eh?

Dunno about the Lange no nuclear thang... I would imagine a population of 4 million is pretty much moot in regards to affecting world economy.

That's rhetorical question . As someone said in another thread, think globally act locally... yup I agree NZ can lead the world in a better direction...

[Clockwork]

As far as democracy goes, what worries me is that modern governments are busy signing us up to international agreements and treaties that are seriously impacting our sovereign rights to the democratic process. I suspect this is why politicians continue to ignore popular opinion in matters such as the anti-smacking legislation, intellectual property rights laws and the selling off of national assets. Quite honestly I doubt we have the ability to changes these laws back now regardless of how many voters may want to.

[oldrider]

As far as democracy goes, what worries me is that modern governments are busy signing us up to international agreements and treaties that are seriously impacting our sovereign rights to the democratic process. I suspect this is why politicians continue to ignore popular opinion in matters such as the anti-smacking legislation, intellectual property rights laws and the selling off of national assets. Quite honestly I doubt we have the ability to changes these laws back now regardless of how many voters may want to.

Hmmmm, good post, perfect example of the 5 monkey syndrome and the need to clean out the cage!

[superman]

Ok so it wasn't a case of doesn't affect me so I don't care it is more a case of accepting the lies.

The anti-smacking law was meant to help prevent child abuse, s indicated in your reply, but instead does nothing for real abuse and diverts resources to bad discipline. Surely bad discipline would be better handle by better support for parents, oh shit thats right the realization hit "the experts" recently.

Copyright was meant to protect and encourage originality and creativity, the copywrite amendment protects over pricing and limit releasing by the media moguls. It stymies originality and creativity and artists have to 'buy' their success by selling their souls to the moguls.

Dig a bit deeper than the political spin.

Working for families, Plunket, cheap child care etc already occur in NZ helping to providing a 'top of the cliff' approach to helping parents. I see physical abuse of children far more as a cultural thing, it's a law put in place to let people know it's not a correct form of discipline. It's trying to bring a change to the culture where physical abuse of children is regarded as okay. A law such as the anti-smacking one does not pull large resources (5 prosecutions in the last 2 years), only those caught physically abusing their children will be put through the court, as they should be.

Copyright already protects intellectual property. The new amendment just provides a way to enforce those caught illegally obtaining media under copyright protection. No one needs to buy success, or sell to a mogul. To do so doesn't help a true artist who aspires to be original, creative etc. The only reason to sell to a media company is for lots of money, and fame. Neither of which really help an artist with their creations.

[porky]

So what you are saying is forget the hose.....lace the bananas with 1080....

[SPman]

Copyright already protects intellectual property. The new amendment just provides a way to enforce those caught illegally obtaining media under copyright protection. No one needs to buy success, or sell to a mogul. To do so doesn't help a true artist who aspires to be original, creative etc. The only reason to sell to a media company is for lots of money, and fame. Neither of which really help an artist with their creations.

One thing I wonder about with regard to the ridiculous penalties invoked.......how is "illegally" downloading a copy of a song from the net, so much more horrendous, than say, shoplifting a copy of the same tune from a CD store..........

[mashman]

One thing I wonder about with regard to the ridiculous penalties invoked.......how is "illegally" downloading a copy of a song from the net, so much more horrendous, than say, shoplifting a copy of the same tune from a CD store..........

at least shoplifters make an effort to go to the store? perhaps shop lifters can't afford internet connectivity and are therefore less likely to pay a fine?

[oldrider]

The idea behind this thread was to cast aside the current incumbents and for us to discuss and think about what it would be like if it was "good"!

I spend a lot of time shifting the junk around in my shed, when what it really needs is a total clear out .... now "that" would be good!

The problem is I get attached to some of the junk and think it might come in handy one day! ... What a load of bullshit!

I had stuff that I had saved from when I was an apprentice and never used, have been carting around for years and had to "pay" to dump it the other day!

What sort of "fail" do you call that!

Parliament is a bit like my shed, it needs a periodical "clean-out" and the 5 monkey theory sort of fits the bill.

We just hang on to these pricks for all the wrong reasons and we (or our children, grandchildren etc.) "pay" for it in the end!

Perhaps we should just bight the bullet and clean the shed out periodically!

[schrodingers cat]

Because we're all amateur politicians we all know about politics and what it actually takes.

Just like because we've all been to school we know about teaching and having watched hours of sport we're experts or that too.

The current political format does not exclude you from fielding a fresh team, quite the opposite in fact.

So:
Who will replace the 'usless buggers' we have currently?
What are their policies - on EVERY issue
How will they make things better?
Actually - define 'better'. How will they not make things worse?
What is their experience and suitability for the job?

And, as I asked before, which country is your model. Who is doing it better and why?

Take it to the polls.