School fee "donations" & activity fees - Where to draw the line?

[mashman]

What else can you get for $260 that lasts 5 days a week for (more or less) a whole year?

I realise that this may be an outdated concept, but I want my kids, and everyone else's, to have a completely free education. Not everyone has the money to spend and as mentioned by others, that should not be a factor in regards to public exclusion and it most definitely should not be a factor in the standard of education that any child in the country receives. I had a free edumacation and wonder what changed that stopped every child from having a free education. My taxes should be enough, if they aren't, then the fuckers who spend it are spending it on the wrong things, like finance company bailouts etc... This country, and pretty much every other country on the planet, is fucked because of dickheads who wield social budget like a hammer. They can all go fuck themselves and deserve lots of time in jail for such a gross mismanagement.

[p.dath]

Education is never free. Chances are if you can't afford the $20/week (or less) to allow your kids to go to school/trips....you most likely can't afford to give them 30 minutes of your time a night for their homework either.

If you want your kids to have a good education, it will cost you in more than one way.
To simply place ALL of that responsibility on the schooling system in NZ is a clear sign of a lazy parent. When toilet training do you simply give em a bucket and shout "Right, there you are, off you go! Don't complain to me if you get it wrong".
Imagine when the poor bastards learn to drive, your probably going to blame the LTSA and the AA.

Education is not a chore, its a privilege. Earn it for your kids.

Shit your a pompous arse.

I can't afford to pay that $20/week/child donations. I always pay the activity fees and subject fees.

I make sure all the children do their homework from 4pm to 5pm. And I try and give one of them extra tutoring time in the morning before they go to school as well.

I also work full time, and I volunteer a couple of hours of my week every week helping learner riders gain skills to keep them alive.


So thanks for calling me a lazy parent. Much appreciated.

[Zedder]

I realise that this may be an outdated concept, but I want my kids, and everyone else's, to have a completely free education. Not everyone has the money to spend and as mentioned by others, that should not be a factor in regards to public exclusion and it most definitely should not be a factor in the standard of education that any child in the country receives. I had a free edumacation and wonder what changed that stopped every child from having a free education. My taxes should be enough, if they aren't, then the fuckers who spend it are spending it on the wrong things, like finance company bailouts etc... This country, and pretty much every other country on the planet, is fucked because of dickheads who wield social budget like a hammer. They can all go fuck themselves and deserve lots of time in jail for such a gross mismanagement.

Some figures for you: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/expenditure

[Usarka]

There's sod all parents sending kids to school without lunch.

I'd say the majority of kids at my high school went to school without lunch, and I'm talking a few years ago now. Mind you it was in a very low decile south auckland school.

[mashman]

Some figures for you: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/expenditure

I could get lost in there forever, but it still doesn't help that those who wield the budget are useless.

[Zedder]

If people are willing to top up what the government should be covering then the government is just gonna keep paying less.

Fair enough asking for cash for extra/out of school activities, like a trip to the zoo or a camp. Let parents choose.

-Indy

The Government are probably laughing up their sleeves at people topping up the education budget and aren't likely to stop them paying.

[Winston001]

The privileged are always very good at making sweeping generalisations about others lacking in resources...

There's sod all parents sending kids to school without lunch...

Jim - there are parents sending children to school who at age 5 cannot even talk. Nobody speaks to them at home and the only interaction they have is with the TV. They learn not to say anything in case they get a belt around the head.

The total donations (not fees, subject fees, activity fees, etc) between our four children at school was a touch under $1200 this year. Yep, over a grand in donations being asked for. One of those schools wanted $600 on its own.

I refuse to pay. I simply can't afford to pay for the premium - so I am happy to accept the basics.

So I guess while you call me a bludger, my view of the school officials (especially after your comments) asking for such ludicrous amounts of money reduces even further.

Perhaps if I had the pay and benefits of the teachers and officials asking for the money (like your wife, its seems) it might be a different story.

No offence intended and you'll note I said families who cannot afford to pay are treated well if they front up.

My wife did her BOT work in the evenings for five years. No payment (she donated the meeting fees to the school). The phone rang every night and sometimes at 6 am too. Thats on top of a full time job and being a mother to 3 young children. Other BOT members did the same, particularly the Treasurer.

I totally agree that $1200 is a big sum and your reaction is understandable. Have you offered a contribution - say $20/month? It all helps.

Like it or not, what is unpaid has to be covered by other parents.

[p.dath]

Like it or not, what is unpaid has to be covered by other parents.

Negative. The school can reduce its expenditure to live within it's income - like I have to. It's common sense really.

[avgas]

So now you're an expert on education. Strange, I didn't see anything on your self professed qualifications list that stated that.
Look how you spelt education in your previous post by the way (eduction).
Also, things may have changed a bit since you "read" the Education Act 15 years ago!

When you do something enough its easy to become an expert (12 years pre-Uni, 12 years @ Uni........I would like to do more but work/family gets in the way).

I would love to teach (especially around that year 11-13 mark - kids have so much energy then), but alas I don't see a point in having to sacrifice salary for it.
I would like to think things have changed - but you have not stated the changes.....leaving me to believe you have not read it. Or it has not changed

As for the spelling mistake, I am truely sorry. I had no idea you had placed me in such god like status before. I do enjoy making mistakes as it gives me something to improve on.

[Zedder]

Jim - there are parents sending children to school who at age 5 cannot even talk. Nobody speaks to them at home and the only interaction they have is with the TV. They learn not to say anything in case they get a belt around the head.



No offence intended and you'll note I said families who cannot afford to pay are treated well if they front up.

My wife did her BOT work in the evenings for five years. No payment (she donated the meeting fees to the school). The phone rang every night and sometimes at 6 am too. Thats on top of a full time job and being a mother to 3 young children. Other BOT members did the same, particularly the Treasurer.

I totally agree that $1200 is a big sum and your reaction is understandable. Have you offered a contribution - say $20/month? It all helps.

Like it or not, what is unpaid has to be covered by other parents.

No Winston001, parents do not have to pay anything. That's the difference between fees (compulsory and enforceable) and donations (voluntary and not enforceable) parents pay because, in most cases, they want the best for their kids. That's perfectly understandable.

Some of the other "parents" (criminals) shouldn't even be allowed to have kids, but the taxpayer picks up the tab for their activities as well. Meanwhile the kids suffer.

The reality is, although New Zealand education is meant to be free, we as a country can't properly afford it under the current system. Low Government revenue from a small population coupled with bad financial management, company bailouts, civil emergencies and recessions etc all take their toll easily. The "rob Peter to pay Paul" syndrome is alive and well in NZ and swings between Health and Education costs often.

Despite this, for some reason we've still got a very high ranking education system when measured against other countries.

Anyway, 'nuf said, I'd better carry with my very lawful behaviour ('morning Police Minister!) and do some stuff.

[Zedder]

When you do something enough its easy to become an expert (12 years pre-Uni, 12 years @ Uni........I would like to do more but work/family gets in the way).

I would love to teach (especially around that year 11-13 mark - kids have so much energy then), but alas I don't see a point in having to sacrifice salary for it.
I would like to think things have changed - but you have not stated the changes.....leaving me to believe you have not read it. Or it has not changed

As for the spelling mistake, I am truely sorry. I had no idea you had placed me in such god like status before. I do enjoy making mistakes as it gives me something to improve on.

I agree with Pdath.

[avgas]

Shit your a pompous arse.
I can't afford to pay that $20/week/child donations. I always pay the activity fees and subject fees.
I make sure all the children do their homework from 4pm to 5pm. And I try and give one of them extra tutoring time in the morning before they go to school as well.
I also work full time, and I volunteer a couple of hours of my week every week helping learner riders gain skills to keep them alive.
So thanks for calling me a lazy parent. Much appreciated.

I am on this subject to an extent. For no other reason except to get reactions. I would like to see why people feel they should not have to pay for some of the best education in the world.

Why can't you? I can't afford to put new tyres on my bike.
Fantastic in regards to you paying activity fees and subject fees though - but how do you feel about the people who freeload off you paying?

Even more fantastic in regards to homework thing. If you re-read my post, this does not make you a lazy parent at all.
But it does raise the question - $20/week?
If it is such a problem for so many NZer's - why don't they simply cut it out and drop the standard of education? Surely that would make everyone happier than having to pay an extra grand or so a year?

A good day educational care will set you back about $200+ week, private school nearly double that, Uni is around that mark. I do feel a lot for you solo parents out there who work though.

Hell back in the day Encyclopedia Britannica cost something like $1500!

So is out education system that much of a rip-off?

[avgas]

I agree with Pdath.

[avgas]

Scrap the trips then.
If someone wants more than the public system provides they can go to a private school.

I completely agree.
Scrap everything they can't afford and give a free education. If parents want more they can organize it themselves.

But I have warned once here.
Be careful what you wish for. I once was told the cabin bread was free food. Cabin bread is not food at all - it's a building material.

[Winston001]

It's free to sit in a classroom and have a teacher teach, however schools can not afford to do trips, provide extra resources etc without parents help.

keep in mind, kids bring home books from school, a lot don't come back. We had to replenish the reader books for our new entrants last year, it cost $5000

Good post.

You've reminded me of a meeting at our primary school prompted by the school "donation" argument. The principal showed us some books which regularly disappeared and explained there was no budget provided for that. Basic things I thought our taxes paid for - were not. Dictionaries as referred to earlier.