Suspension dyno video

[Robert Taylor]

When you say dump style are you meaning with large ports?

"end conditions" Im all ears.

Thanks

There will be an upcoming and in depth article on the ''dump valve'' in an upcoming magazine article. After that is published ( and only after it is published ) I will elaborate further.

Reference ''end conditions'' many mass produced springs are produced in a low cost way in that the "enthinned'' / ground down ends dont meet / touch the next coil. Compare to a high quality aftermarket spring and they usually touch, except where it is deliberate for a specific performance reason ( seen on some MX springs ). As you compress the spring the ends will compress first until they touch, that gives a very soft initial start rate and then ramps up in a bit of a step as the ends touch. So such springs are not truly linear in action.

[dazzler]

There will be an upcoming and in depth article on the ''dump valve'' in an upcoming magazine article. After that is published ( and only after it is published ) I will elaborate further.

Reference ''end conditions'' many mass produced springs are produced in a low cost way in that the "enthinned'' / ground down ends dont meet / touch the next coil. Compare to a high quality aftermarket spring and they usually touch, except where it is deliberate for a specific performance reason ( seen on some MX springs ). As you compress the spring the ends will compress first until they touch, that gives a very soft initial start rate and then ramps up in a bit of a step as the ends touch. So such springs are not truly linear in action.

Thanks again. Looking forward to hear about the dump valve

Ok So If they are high quality springs and the ends touch the next coil they are a true linear spring and if the dont, chances are they are slightly progressive.. is that correct?

If so, how would you know if you had a low quality MX spring? possibly by the lower rate?

Cheers

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks again. Looking forward to hear about the dump valve

Ok So If they are high quality springs and the ends touch the next coil they are a true linear spring and if the dont, chances are they are slightly progressive.. is that correct?

If so, how would you know if you had a low quality MX spring? possibly by the lower rate?

Cheers

Yes, correct.

We also have digital spring rate testing equipment for rear shock springs and fork springs. That is another piece of equipment that means we are not ''flying blind''. It will be in a future YouTube video. Beyond that there is a kit for the shock dyno that will dynamically test a shock spring through its full cycle.

[dazzler]

Would that be the intercomp tester?

So did you get the add on spring tester for the dyno?

Which HP dyno is that?

[F5 Dave]

Ahh, how timely, (although I haven't had time to check this section for a while so I am late to the party. For a few weeks since I heard you were getting the new dyno in I was intending to start a thread called "Show us your curves Dr Bob". As I was out for my walk at lunch I leafed through the BRM article & thought ahh!


I'll watch the vid when I'm not at work & have more than smoko time avail, - so excuse is vid has touched this, but before i forget, my question was going to be along the lines:

Having seen suspension dyno curves back in the 90s in mags, they seem to have disappeared from view. Clearly their complete circle curves were not the full picture as there have been many advances & I assume high speed probably wasn't amply high.

So what is the comparison for example of a Big Piston fork which you explain still has crazy restrictive pistons & say a Race Tech conversion, or Ohlins? Can you see a quantitative difference? The BRM article touched on this a little, maybe I should have bought the mag, but it seemed a touch over lightly & then spotted the Practical Sportsbikes with the 475cc NS400 conversion & TDR on the cover & my magazine budget always goes towards the 2 strokes first.

But as I walk back & remember I see this thread.

[pete-blen]

and of course Roberts buying volumes and rates would be the same as in America

LOL..
That reminds me...

I was talking with the BOC gases rep a few years ago.
He was telling me how BOC NZ went to Kobe in Japan
after a better deal on mig welding wire...
said hey fella's we buy X tons of mig wire a year of you's
how about a better deal....
Kobe's reply was... you don't even take a days production
from one of our plants....

we are small potato's..

[Robert Taylor]

Also check out our YouTube video, ''KSS, vacuum bleeding of shocks''

[Shaun]

This Dyno is an extremelly important piece of equiptment for a serious suspension company like this company is. Years back when the first GSXR 600 750 and 1000 came out, Robert ended up building the first Ohlins shocks ( with his old dyno) to suit all these bikes using me as the test rider, ( we spent many hours and lots of $ doing this) Ohlins released these shocks with only One change to settings ( One extra rebound shim) we came up with I recieved big pats on the back from Ohlins via Robert for my abillities as a test rider, and that was a buz for me.


As I have experienced first hand just how crucial this tool is, my parteners and I in Adelaide have just purchased the same brand as Roberts ( Second hand and a lower level unit) for me to start learning more about the Dynamics of shocks) I will be going to the USA in 5 weeks for a 3 week training course using them and working with suspension internals with a very reputable company.

The aim is to break into the Auistralian Road suspension market place, ( NOT NZ) This will be a compliment to our workshop facillities.

I have witnessed what Robert learnt years back with his old Dyno, and all customers became winners by him having it, there is NO ONE else as serious about there suspension proffession in NZ

[Robert Taylor]

This Dyno is an extremelly important piece of equiptment for a serious suspension company like this company is. Years back when the first GSXR 600 750 and 1000 came out, Robert ended up building the first Ohlins shocks ( with his old dyno) to suit all these bikes using me as the test rider, ( we spent many hours and lots of $ doing this) Ohlins released these shocks with only One change to settings ( One extra rebound shim) we came up with I recieved big pats on the back from Ohlins via Robert for my abillities as a test rider, and that was a buz for me.


As I have experienced first hand just how crucial this tool is, my parteners and I in Adelaide have just purchased the same brand as Roberts ( Second hand and a lower level unit) for me to start learning more about the Dynamics of shocks) I will be going to the USA in 5 weeks for a 3 week training course using them and working with suspension internals with a very reputable company.

The aim is to break into the Auistralian Road suspension market place, ( NOT NZ) This will be a compliment to our workshop facillities.

I have witnessed what Robert learnt years back with his old Dyno, and all customers became winners by him having it, there is NO ONE else as serious about there suspension proffession in NZ

Good on you! The suspension game in the Pacific region needs lifting out of the dark ages. It amazes me how many people attempt to revalve stock suspension units and dont actually truly know exactly what affect it has had at every point of the damping force curves. It might feel better but without being able to graphically view the curve is it as ideal / optimised as it could be?
What we all forget is that high end suspension manufacturers use laboratory dynos, spring testing equipment etc allied with solid road and track testing to arrive at good settings. It makes sense that committed service shops should also have test equipment to graphically show the effect of setting changes etc.

One thing that has opened the eyes is how less than ideal many aftermarket piston kits ( there are several manufacturers worldwide ) are with their ''customised valving''. These kits all have the potential to work really well but some of the setting suggestions are wide of the mark. Using our knowledge / database from dyno runs we as a company ( KSS ) are well placed in being able to give solid reccommendations for settings for the kits we sell. Of course we will help those that buy the kits off us, not if purchased offshore.

Moreover this has liberated another market for us, reworking stock shocks to a high standard / huge improvement. ( Very often they DONT require aftermarket piston kits! This at a very affordable cost where the owner cannot afford to purchase a high quality aftermarket shock i.e Ohlins, WP or Penske. We have done a very detailed article on modifying stock Triumph 675 shocks, published in the current issue of BRM magazine.This explains in laymans terms all the whys and wherefores of link ratio curves, spring rates and preload and damping force curves. That stock 675 rear end is beset with 3 major flaws / issues, but the article is relevant to suspension in general

Without a suspension dyno this would have taken a month of Sundays to get the result we did with dyno work. Mediocrity and ''flying blind'' just doesnt cut it. Shaun can confirm that from our first experience with suspension dyno work, allied with track testing. He won a 600 title and then Craig Shirriffs 2 x titles, all on the back of dyno work that Shaun and I did, in doing so finding a technique that both he and Craig benefited from. BUT, its very important that this is not only about racing, its in fact 80% about improving road bike suspension for more control, but also better ride quality / compliance.

Anyone interested in that article should seek out that BRM magazine currently on the bookshelves

[F5 Dave]

Back to an earlier question; it would be interesting to see graphically the limitations of say a BPF piston vs say a G.Valve, perhaps GSXR1000 in a much earlier BRM article which was criticised as being flow restrictive. Just for interest's sake, I realise it is easier to type a request than have to go find & download suitable curves.

ok will go buy the BRM, but I just spent my bike mag money this week.

[Robert Taylor]

Back to an earlier question; it would be interesting to see graphically the limitations of say a BPF piston vs say a G.Valve, perhaps GSXR1000 in a much earlier BRM article which was criticised as being flow restrictive. Just for interest's sake, I realise it is easier to type a request than have to go find & download suitable curves.

ok will go buy the BRM, but I just spent my bike mag money this week.

Thats a timely reminder thanks Dave. Today we did a lot of work on a Race Tech piston upgrade for BPF forks in a year 12 GSXR1000, including a number of runs to test the response range of the clickers. ( which was excellent ) Notably the rebound valving reccommendation was well wide of the mark, but this is the BIG advantage of having a suspension dyno, we can nail the settings on more than ''blind faith''. So thats totally unique in the NZ motorcycle suspension industry.
We will have some more stock standard GSXR1000 forks turning up over the next few weeks to fit Ohlins TTX25 gas cartridges to. ( recognised worldwide as the very best aftermarket cartridges ) We will be doing dyno runs with those but will also make a point of dynoing the bone stock forks. We will then post in this forum about it.
Id like to reiterate that the dyno was funded from part of a family legacy that I recieved, the NZ market is so small and also in some circles burdened with a ''dutch auction'' mentality, so funding it from ok but not spectacular business profits would in relative terms have taken an eternity. I could have purchased a damn good motorcycle for 35k but frankly this gives me more enjoyment than I would ever feel riding a motorcycle! Moreover there are forms of ''wealth'' other than monetary accumulation. Constant accumulation of knowledge is in many ways a more satisfying form of wealth, and then having the opportunity to positively impart that knowledge

[gammaguy]

how bout a bit of background music in the Vid Robert?, what would you reckon it should be?

spring



by vivaldi of course

[dazzler]

Anyone interested in that article should seek out that BRM magazine currently on the bookshelves

Thats a bummer I've never seen that mag on this side of the ditch

Has the write up been done about the Dump valve yet?

[Robert Taylor]

Thats a bummer I've never seen that mag on this side of the ditch

Has the write up been done about the Dump valve yet?

Forward me your e-mail address to robert@kss.net.nz and I will forward both articles. No problem if you are offshore to send them both but here in NZ we wont forward the articles to residents as it is broaching etiquette with the magazine

[F5 Dave]

incidentally I went looking for BRM yesterday & not at the local, I'll expand search today.