Bridgestone Winter Series Round 4 - Manfeild

[Tony.OK]

Why is it that whenever an official of any club or organisation,Insists on a rule/rules be followed,Its suddenly seen as bullying? Its not bullying at all,Its just making sure that EVERYBODY who holds an MNZ licence does what they agree to when filling out their licence application form,That being you agree to READ the M.O.M.S and abide by the rules within,If you are an MNZ licence holder and you have not read the rules as stated above,You are in breach of the contract you entered into and your licence is invalid and should be returned to the office until such times as you can be bothered reading the rulebook,GET WITH THE PROGRAM,Its my intention to make it compulsory all entry forms for roadrace events have a minimum of 5 questions from various chapters of the rulebook that have to be answered before your entry is accepted,No questions on the entry form = no permit,No permit = no race meeting,Your choice!!!It has been left up to the members to self regulate and its not working,So time for a change.

All the more reason for there to be some sort of online test for licenses, should it be the clubs or MNZ ensuring license holders are up to spec?
Not having a go Billy but when compared to say a road license do you think it would be ok for drivers to sign a form to say they know the rules and leave it at that?
Just something to think about maybe?

That said, you're idea of random questions on entry forms will get ppl searching through the rules too, can only be a good thing.

[Billy]

All the more reason for there to be some sort of online test for licenses, should it be the clubs or MNZ ensuring license holders are up to spec?
Not having a go Billy but when compared to say a road license do you think it would be ok for drivers to sign a form to say they know the rules and leave it at that?
Just something to think about maybe?

That said, you're idea of random questions on entry forms will get ppl searching through the rules too, can only be a good thing.

Absolutely agree Tony,Problem for me is that,Despite the misconception the roadrace commissioner makes the rules up all by himself,This in fact is not the case,So when I see an avenue to get things happening where it doesn't need to go through the normal channels and I think it will have a positive outcome,I take action on it,That doesn't mean we dont have plans to improve the system further as you say,Its just that major changes have to be overseen by the board and special rules committee and it can take months,I have plans to implement an Academy whereby machines and schooling are provided for those entering the sport with a view that when set up,It will become compulsory to enter through those channels,Obviously there will be a cost involved,But it won't be in human terms such as a life,This has been offered to others but turned down.Some folks will be behind it,Some will not,But the fact is we need to be schooling new entrants to the sport in safety and knowing the rules,Everything else they should be able to work out themselves in their own time.

[RobGassit]

If a risk has been identified, education, engineering or mentoring are much more effective ways of limiting risk in the future. Have we had incidents because of a lack of knowledge of the rules or a lapse in compliance with the rules? A successful answer to a pop quiz on the dummy grid will achieve nothing but be a memory test. If someone makes a mistake, an interview with a respected peer would establish firstly, did they realise the error and the risk involved, secondly would they be likely to repeat the mistake and thirdly was there another solution to preventing reoccurence. For instance, a sign that reminds you to wait behind the white line on the slip road until signaled to proceed etc. Not unlike the Helmet strap signs currently used. If a racer was approached by Choppa or Codgy for example, and mentored about a behavior ( asked what the phuck they were thinking) then I believe the risk would be better managed than a broad brush ( you're all to phuckin stupid to live) approach.

[CHOPPA]

If a risk has been identified, education, engineering or mentoring are much more effective ways of limiting risk in the future. Have we had incidents because of a lack of knowledge of the rules or a lapse in compliance with the rules? A successful answer to a pop quiz on the dummy grid will achieve nothing but be a memory test. If someone makes a mistake, an interview with a respected peer would establish firstly, did they realise the error and the risk involved, secondly would they be likely to repeat the mistake and thirdly was there another solution to preventing reoccurence. For instance, a sign that reminds you to wait behind the white line on the slip road until signaled to proceed etc. Not unlike the Helmet strap signs currently used. If a racer was approached by Choppa or Codgy for example, and mentored about a behavior ( asked what the phuck they were thinking) then I believe the risk would be better managed than a broad brush ( you're all to phuckin stupid to live) approach.

Thats actually a pretty interesting concept. Maybe this could be something the selected riders rep could deal with?

[Billy]

If a risk has been identified, education, engineering or mentoring are much more effective ways of limiting risk in the future. Have we had incidents because of a lack of knowledge of the rules or a lapse in compliance with the rules? A successful answer to a pop quiz on the dummy grid will achieve nothing but be a memory test. If someone makes a mistake, an interview with a respected peer would establish firstly, did they realise the error and the risk involved, secondly would they be likely to repeat the mistake and thirdly was there another solution to preventing reoccurence. For instance, a sign that reminds you to wait behind the white line on the slip road until signaled to proceed etc. Not unlike the Helmet strap signs currently used. If a racer was approached by Choppa or Codgy for example, and mentored about a behavior ( asked what the phuck they were thinking) then I believe the risk would be better managed than a broad brush ( you're all to phuckin stupid to live) approach.

Well thats a mighty fine ambulance at the bottom of the cliff !!!What about we just encourage people to do something they agreed to when applying for their licence,That way they'll atleast have some idea what is expected of them and hey who knows,They might even get carried away and listen at riders briefing or read the supplementary regs for the series theyre competing in,I'll bet there'll still be instances where people make mistakes,But there would be a shitload less of them and then the officials and riders rep would have some chance of being able to deal with them,I mean if you had of read the rulebook,You'd have known better than to clutter up the official numbers list with your request for no.357 when the rulebook states 2 digit numbers only

[CHOPPA]

Hey Billy, whats the ruling now with crashing your bike mid race then picking it up and riding again?

[Billy]

Hey Billy, whats the ruling now with crashing your bike mid race then picking it up and riding again?

At the moment,Its has it always was,But there is a rulechange in the system that will prevent any machine that is crashed from re entering the circuit and will have to be transported back to the pits on a recovery vehicle,I think Vic club have something in their supp regs for their series or they cover it at riders brief.

[RobGassit]

Well thats a mighty fine ambulance at the bottom of the cliff !!!What about we just encourage people to do something they agreed to when applying for their licence,That way they'll atleast have some idea what is expected of them and hey who knows,They might even get carried away and listen at riders briefing or read the supplementary regs for the series theyre competing in,I'll bet there'll still be instances where people make mistakes,But there would be a shitload less of them and then the officials and riders rep would have some chance of being able to deal with them,I mean if you had of read the rulebook,You'd have known better than to clutter up the official numbers list with your request for no.357 when the rulebook states 2 digit numbers only

So apparently I'm also too stupid to live. I haven't requested 357 to my knowledge, except for the Classic Register, and have been allocated 2 digit numbers.As for supplementary regs, in my recent experience even some officials don't know what's in them. Nobody's perfect, or pretending to be. Anyway, I'm sure any attention paid to increasing safety is better than none, but winning hearts and minds is alot more effective than parking tickets and a prod with a pointed stick. Just ask any parking warden.

[Shorty_925]

One question each time you go out. Wrong answer - no race, no refund.

Would that make everyone read the rule book?

How does knowing rule 1.8, 3.15 or 9.4.7 help make rider x a safer rider out on the track? As I take its about safety out there on the track.

[Billy]

So apparently I'm also too stupid to live. I haven't requested 357 to my knowledge, except for the Classic Register, and have been allocated 2 digit numbers.As for supplementary regs, in my recent experience even some officials don't know what's in them. Nobody's perfect, or pretending to be. Anyway, I'm sure any attention paid to increasing safety is better than none, but winning hearts and minds is alot more effective than parking tickets and a prod with a pointed stick. Just ask any parking warden.

Actually I wasn't suggesting anybody was stupid at all,Just pointing out how everybody knowing whats required of them by reading the rulebook and keeping upto date with it makes things work so much better and therefore must add to safety as well.

However,After that little outburst,I might have to reconsider,Seems your knowledge as you put is a bit hazy as youve requested and been issued with 357 for the following classes,Pro twin,Superbike,Superlite and Supersport 600,Got that wee gem straight from the official numbers list,Want me to tell you how many classes your partner has the number 311 for as well???Seems nobody in your household reads the rulebook eh!I also would have thought the importance of everybody knowing and following rules would have been very relevant to an Ex officer of the law,Shows you how much I know eh!

[Billy]

How does knowing rule 1.8, 3.15 or 9.4.7 help make rider x a safer rider out on the track? As I take its about safety out there on the track.

Really Pete,You can't see how everybody knowing the rules surrounding safety and technical issues would make racing safer???? Still want me to continue on with your application to run a street circuit???Cause I'm not likely to sign off on a permit for a meeting where I don't think the officials are competent and upto date with the rulebook,For what I would have thought were obvious reasons.

[Skunk]

You sign a form that says you've read and understood the rules and you don't like the idea of a test?

It was tongue in cheek but I think the concept has merit. You should know the safety rules.

Discussing it after the fact has not worked! We have done that for years with no effect. Repeating the same thing expecting a different outcome is just stupid. Time for a new approach. I don't know what yet but I'm thinking. It will be a 'before the incident' approach though.

[RobGassit]

Actually I wasn't suggesting anybody was stupid at all,Just pointing out how everybody knowing whats required of them by reading the rulebook and keeping upto date with it makes things work so much better and therefore must add to safety as well.

However,After that little outburst,I might have to reconsider,Seems your knowledge as you put is a bit hazy as youve requested and been issued with 357 for the following classes,Pro twin,Superbike,Superlite and Supersport 600,Got that wee gem straight from the official numbers list,Want me to tell you how many classes your partner has the number 311 for as well???Seems nobody in your household reads the rulebook eh!I also would have thought the importance of everybody knowing and following rules would have been very relevant to an Ex officer of the law,Shows you how much I know eh!

Those numbers for us are way out of date Billy, and not the numbers we currently hold, which are all 2 digit. This is getting personal, so as I might well need bodywork off you at least once during the next season, and don't want to pay the 25% surcharge for pissing you off on here with an opinion that doesn't match yours, I'll promptly withdraw and go phuck myself.

[RobGassit]

You sign a form that says you've read and understood the rules and you don't like the idea of a test?

It was tongue in cheek but I think the concept has merit. You should know the safety rules.

Discussing it after the fact has not worked! We have done that for years with no effect. Repeating the same thing expecting a different outcome is just stupid. Time for a new approach. I don't know what yet but I'm thinking. It will be a 'before the incident' approach though.

As always Skunk, in the end you have my support. I'm simply trying to convey that you don't have to kick a dog to train it. Or kick the other dogs in the yard either, they were just watching.

[Shorty_925]

Really Pete,You can't see how everybody knowing the rules surrounding safety and technical issues would make racing safer???? Still want me to continue on with your application to run a street circuit???Cause I'm not likely to sign off on a permit for a meeting where I don't think the officials are competent and upto date with the rulebook,For what I would have thought were obvious reasons.

I can and your idea of questions of the entry form has merit. Over time people should gain a better understanding and be better educated on the rules.

The spot check type questioning/tests ain't for me, never have been! Almost got taking in for questioning in the UK because they thought I was a pole and struggled to get the words out!