I believe in gay marriage

[oneofsix]

Sally Ride, first woman astronaut and physicist: http://ideas.time.com/2012/07/27/dom...rides-partner/

Not exactly NZ and in NZ she has the option of civil union.

The Norm?
So you in a room full of Homosexuals would not be the norm, then you would be the Queer one?

No, I'd be leaving. or would I? they have some good parties
Norm and Queer in this usage refer to the world as a whole not a room or a queer bar. Whilst they might be the majority in the room it doesn't make it the norm.

Discrimination on any level is unfair

Discrimination happens at many levels and for many reasons, we can't all be CEO of Microsoft. Communism played at trying to remove discrimination. But this is about word usage, they can have the same right just different words.

[SimJen]

Not exactly NZ and in NZ she has the option of civil union.
No, I'd be leaving. or would I? they have some good parties
Norm and Queer in this usage refer to the world as a whole not a room or a queer bar. Whilst they might be the majority in the room it doesn't make it the norm.
Discrimination happens at many levels and for many reasons, we can't all be CEO of Microsoft. Communism played at trying to remove discrimination. But this is about word usage, they can have the same right just different words.

Might not be NZ but something similar could still happen here.
Normal is a bad word to throw around, I'm sure many of us on KB aren't deemed normal! What/Who is? There is no grading system for it except in peoples warped minds.
I don't see how my marriage to my wife will change if gays are allowed to use the word?
Makes no difference to me, but then I have no religious insecurities!

[oneofsix]

Might not be NZ but something similar could still happen here.
Normal is a bad word to throw around, I'm sure many of us on KB aren't deemed normal! What/Who is? There is no grading system for it except in peoples warped minds.
I don't see how my marriage to my wife will change if gays are allowed to use the word?
Makes no difference to me, but then I have no religious insecurities!

You makes lots of assumptions that if you read back through my posts it is obvious are incorrect.
Yes the Sally Ride sort of things did happen here and still do to both queer and hetro couples, but now both, at least in NZ, have an option to protect themselves from that.
Normal is what it is. It is what most are and more of a statistical construct. No one is completely normal and many posts ago I made a point similar to yours regarding motorcyclists.
Wife? no that will have to be partner. Will it make a difference then?




Enough of me on this thread. It's been fun, it will happen

[Tigadee]

"While civil unions paved the way for dozens of pieces of legislation to be changed so that they did not discriminate against same-sex couples, that didn't go far enough, Labour deputy leader Grant Robertson says. "We got that in all but two laws - the Adoption Act and the Marriage Act, I think we made good progress with the civil unions, we achieved a close to equal situation, but it wasn't equality, and I think that's what most people want."

Hunting for votes... Bet they won't change anything if they were ever voted back in power.

If they did, well, appeasing the gays is a small price to pay to get back in the position of power to do to the rest of us what the gays do to one another... if you know what I mean.

[Virago]

...But this is about word usage, they can have the same right just different words.

Just like Orwell said - everyone's equal, but some are more equal than others...?

[SimJen]

I don't care one iota if the word marriage is intertwined with gays/heterosexual couples simple as that, its only a word!
But as I've said society/religion creates conflict where there shouldn't be!
Homophobics will always be homophobics, once the older generations die out perhaps society will change a little in this regard?

[Tigadee]

What a bunch of whingers! Compared to other countries, gays, Maoris and beneficiaries have it so good in this country! An native American (that's 'injun' to you rednecks) who lives here once told me that the Maoris have it so good compared to the native Americans who still live on reservations, face even greater discrimination, higher unemployment, widespread illiteracy and poverty, and worse social problems.

There are countries where you'd be killed for even being suspected of being gay - and here in the west the gays flaunt their 'gayness' and go the other extreme of demands and flagrant displays. And the gays, Maoris and benes have nothing better to do than complain and want more, more, more!

How about contributing positive things to society before making demands? They have life, liberty and plenty freedom to pursue any dream or ambition they could think of, but all they can do is whine and bitch about how they don't have "equality". Puh-lease!

[SimJen]

How about contributing positive things to society before making demands? They have life, liberty and plenty freedom to pursue any dream or ambition they could think of, but all they can do is whine and bitch about how they don't have "equality". Puh-lease!

Point has been missed entirely. Most gays do contribute lots to society, probably much more than you or I i'd imagine. Professors, scientists, politicians, lawyers, doctors the list goes on! Its not like they have a sign stapled to them! Or is that how you'd like it?
Just because society sees a minority of gays living a flamboyant lifestyle and brands them all the same is like seeing a white trash 16 year old with 5 different colour kids and branding all kiwi's slags! (when she might just be the nanny!).
Why should they have to prove themselves? Have you had to prove your self worth to anyone?

[imdying]

Coloured people were used as slaves for centuries, should they still be?

Is that a trick question?

[Tigadee]

Point has been missed entirely. Most gays do contribute lots to society, probably much more than you or I i'd imagine. Professors, scientists, politicians, lawyers, doctors the list goes on! Its not like they have a sign stapled to them!

Why should they have to prove themselves?

Precisely, so why don't these normal everyday people just get on with life? They're citizens, they have rights and they're free to do what they want to their full potential; why waste time, energy, money petitioning for a word so many say is just that? BTW, did you know that 40% of marriages result in life-long relationships? *gasp* Do they know what they're getting into?

Isn't it more important to make their relationships work in the first place, irregardless of whether it's called marriage or CU? Just harden up and get on with living. But I guess life's not hard enough already, so they need distractions...

[mashman]

You mean "obviously didn't".
It was also to fulfil one of Aunty Helen's wish lists I guess as she was reported to say at the time that she would have preferred a C U to marriage.

I'll stick with wasn't. If it was meant to, then it would have.

[SimJen]

Precisely, so why don't these normal everyday people just get on with life? They're citizens, they have rights and they're free to do what they want to their full potential; why waste time, energy, money petitioning for a word so many say is just that? BTW, did you know that 40% of marriages result in life-long relationships? *gasp* Do they know what they're getting into?

Isn't it more important to make their relationships work in the first place, irregardless of whether it's called marriage or CU? Just harden up and get on with living. But I guess life's not hard enough already, so they need distractions...

So down to the crux of the matter, where it all started, in a committed relationship under a CU they don't have equal rights to married hetero couples!
If they did I doubt anybody would be caring about this, if this was sorted when the CU first got put through parliament then it would probably not be an issue now.

[Ender EnZed]

Precisely, so why don't these normal everyday people just get on with life? They're citizens, they have rights and they're free to do what they want to their full potential; why waste time, energy, money petitioning for a word so many say is just that?

Plenty of them them don't, some do. Why shouldn't they? You're putting time and energy right now into arguing that they shouldn't.

[Tigadee]

First they're not abnormal, just different or alternative like a music genre. Then now they're not and they want to be the same as hetero married couples...

So why don't they just be hetero, then they can be the same?

[tigertim20]

The difference is that legalizing gay marriage is one significant step further to the moral corruption of society.

well that depends on your morals doesnt it?

Spot on on both counts.

I'm neither for or against anyones choice to be heter or homo. Each to their own and all that.

What I do object to is the underhanded way homos go about trying to justify their choice.

The word gay had a simple meaning for us all i.e. happy. But homos had to hijack it and twist it to give a false sense of righteousness to their choice of sexual preference. Find your own word. Queer, now that you can use.
actually, if you took your head out of your arsehole for five minutes, youd discover that firstly, many gay-rights and gay support groups have actually already adopted the term 'queer' and use it to represent themselves. Otago University for example has a gay support group, called 'Uni-Q' with the Q standing for Queer. Now I would like to further point out that 1. homosexual people didnt 'take' any words, it is the hating, bigoted, homophobic people who decided they needed a word that they felt conveyed an insult that created the idea of gay being homosexual, - the same with the word "Queer" through the 1980's. in recent times, gay groups have decided to 'reclaim' words, words that were once used to differentiate, insult or degrade them, and use those words to empower themselves by defining themselves with those words, thus taking the weapons away from the hate fuelled bigots.
Now they want to hijack the word marriage. They don't need this word, civil union adequately covers their need and purpose to have their relationship recognised offically . Actually it's worse than hijacking the word. They are trying to change it's meaning all together from being the name of a traditional religious institution. I suspect their true intent is again to try and give false credence to their choice. How insecure they must be that they need to justify and 'make it right' to be homo by diluting the choice to be heterosexual. It's a subtle message, to be homo is to be gay, which implies to not be homo must therefore be the opposite i.e. unhappy.
no, it doesnt adequately cover, it leaves holes, and by creating a second, totally different term for gay people wanting to commit to each other, you are actively descriminiating against them, as well as saying they are not the same class of people. thats a disgusting attitude.
If we concede that the meaning of the word and the institution of marriage must be changed, then what if homos next object to the use of the terms 'husband' and 'wife' within a marriage because it offends their sensitive natures imposing a male and female stereotype. Do the rest of us have to all go around describing ourselves as marriage partner A and B.

I'm still struggling to find any historical evidence that marriage has to be between opposing sexes. With the exception of Christianity's gay hate. But marriage is not a Christian made thing, so it doesn't count, nor do we live in a country governed my Christian "morals"

Let HDC marry his buddy, who is it going to hurt and why exactly is marriage between man/woman?
Has someone said something I've missed?

hehe. well tha would be from the twisted perception of the bible son, a verse something about a man not laying with another man.
heres my problem with that idea though. you cant pick and choose which parts of the bible should be interpreted literally, and which shouldnt, just to suit your own beliefs and prejudices. the bible also says women who cheat should be stoned to death, and that its OK to have slaves, and allows many other atrocious behaviours that any sane individual would agree has no place in polite, modern society.

one last thought for those that dont want gays to marry.
it wasnt too long ago that THIS was illegal too