I believe in gay marriage

**Drew** · 16th August 2012, 07:36

Originally Posted by Edbear

I was referring to a more physical approach and speaking generally. For example if one was in a bar and another man tried to kiss you or slip his hands down one's pants. Of course people will react differently as far as specifics go but I was making a point about the reality of how straight people feel which may contrast with their public views.

That's a bloody stupid argument. How would a random woman react if I wandered over and kissed her and stuck my hands down her pants?

There is no difference at all.

**riffer** · 16th August 2012, 08:08

Quite right Drew.

Personally, I feel this discussion is getting completely lost through side issues.

So far the only rational argument presented against equal marriage is that "It's always been for men and women only".

And the only rational argument presented for equal marriage is that "its discriminatory to restrict people from entering a legal contract due to their sexual orientation".

Whether or not you have a problem with homosexuality is irrelevant to the discussion. Marriage is a civil contract, and currently there is a discriminatory law that contravenes all human rights agreements our country (and many others) have signed up to.

It's only a matter of time before the legal arguments overweigh the emotional ones.

**Edbear** · 16th August 2012, 08:14

Originally Posted by Drew

That's a bloody stupid argument. How would a random woman react if I wandered over and kissed her and stuck my hands down her pants?

There is no difference at all.

Not at all, the point was that members here who are straight seem to be very vocal about how homosexuality is ok, which may well be and often is, in contrast to how they personally feel about it. Nothing more.

Aside from that, riffer is correct and the topic has gone a bit sideways. Or a lot, if you read the OP...

**oldrider** · 16th August 2012, 08:59

Original post :I believe in gay marriage: ... No I don't ... there already is provision for Civil Union between same sex couples, for me, end of discussion!

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th August 2012, 09:11

Originally Posted by riffer

Quite right Drew.

Personally, I feel this discussion is getting completely lost through side issues.

So far the only rational argument presented against equal marriage is that "It's always been for men and women only".

And the only rational argument presented for equal marriage is that "its discriminatory to restrict people from entering a legal contract due to their sexual orientation".

Whether or not you have a problem with homosexuality is irrelevant to the discussion. Marriage is a civil contract, and currently there is a discriminatory law that contravenes all human rights agreements our country (and many others) have signed up to.

It's only a matter of time before the legal arguments overweigh the emotional ones.

since page 8 I reckon.

The interesting aspect of it for me is the absolutely entrenched positions driven by hate and religion (usually they are synonyms of course), and the blissful ignorance of those advancing those positions.

**Tigadee** · 16th August 2012, 09:42

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

...absolutely entrenched positions driven by hate and religion (usually they are synonyms of course), and the blissful ignorance of those advancing those positions.

Not true. Many religions stress kindness, love and universal equality. Some people - OK, a lot of people in those now-institutions - have perverted those values and even steered away from those values. But then that's common to all aspects of life.

There will always be rotten apples in any group. Doesn't mean any group should be dismissed or even hated just because of a select crazed or power-hungry few. If you believe in the afterlife, then those people will face justice for eternity, no worries about that. If you don't believe, then it's no wonder you're disillusioned and cynical. If you have firm belief/knowledge that those who deserve it will be going to hell, well, you sleep much better at night and life doesn't seem so hard...

No matter, the facts are that not all gays dress up flamboyantly, act vulgar or will jump on the first man they see picking up a dropped bar of soap. So neither should you all judge all Christians from the actions of a few. We just want to be accepted for what we are and free to spread love and kindness...

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th August 2012, 09:53

Originally Posted by ducatilover

Get in me?

As you were chaps.

they better be assless chaps. All I'm saying

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th August 2012, 10:01

Originally Posted by Tigadee

Not true. Many religions stress kindness, love and universal equality. Some people - OK, a lot of people in those now-institutions - have perverted those values and even steered away from those values. But then that's common to all aspects of life.

There will always be rotten apples in any group. Doesn't mean any group should be dismissed or even hated just because of a select crazed or power-hungry few. If you believe in the afterlife, then those people will face justice for eternity, no worries about that. If you don't believe, then it's no wonder you're disillusioned and cynical. If you have firm belief/knowledge that those who deserve it will be going to hell, well, you sleep much better at night and life doesn't seem so hard...

No matter, the facts are that not all gays dress up flamboyantly, act vulgar or will jump on the first man they see picking up a dropped bar of soap. So neither should you all judge all Christians from the actions of a few. We just want to be accepted for what we are and free to spread love and kindness...

I'm a secular humanist. Do it because its the right thing to do, not because your're scared of what mythical dad in the sky might do to you AFTER YOU ARE DEAD.

I try and keep my contempt for religion separate from religious people. Some relitious people are very nice people. One of the nicest most genuine people I have met this year was a Catholic priest. He was even a fan of Father Ted.

You might even be a nice person, I don't know because we have never met personally. Doesn't change my opinion of religion at all.

I'll leave you with a quote from one of my favourite authors, Christopher Hitchens, who puts it far more eloquently than I, in the sort of vain hope that you will read and think about it, or some other deluded relgious person might:

Originally Posted by Christopher Hitchens

“One must state it plainly. Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody—not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms—had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge (as well as for comfort, reassurance and other infantile needs). Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion, and one would like to think—though the connection is not a fully demonstrable one—that this is why they seem so uninterested in sending fellow humans to hell.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th August 2012, 10:02

Originally Posted by oldrider

Original post :I believe in gay marriage: ... No I don't ... there already is provision for Civil Union between same sex couples, for me, end of discussion!

civil union is not equal to marriage from a legal perspective. trust me on this. its my job to know this shit.

**Drew** · 16th August 2012, 10:14

Marriage was created for legal contracts between families, but has become more than that. As pointed out by MD. He feels that what he asked his now wife to do, is contrary to what the addition of homosexual matrimony presents.

But if we go right back to when some body came up with the contract to rob some womans family of hf their shit, I bet there is nothing in there about same sex union.

In which case, same sex marriage is completely inside the intent of the original idea. To join financial and title wealth between parties together.

There is something very circular about all this when you consider both sides of the argument.

**Quasievil** · 16th August 2012, 10:21

Originally Posted by riffer

Marriage is a civil contract, and currently there is a discriminatory law that contravenes all human rights agreements our country (and many others) have signed up to.

It's only a matter of time before the legal arguments overweigh the emotional ones.

Marriage is not a civil contract it is a union in the eyes of the church, the politicizing of Marriage is new to the modern era

Gays dont and should get the right to marrige as it belittles those that are married, marrige is and always should be a union between a man and a woman................end of story!!
Why do Gays need marriage? they have civil union for fucks sake, the world has gone mad, whats the POINT ???

Whats next marry your Mother, your sister, I mean why not with your rationals ?

You plonkers would subscribe to this !!

**mashman** · 16th August 2012, 10:34

Originally Posted by MD

Quite right there is no such thing as reverse racism. Bad word choice on my part and unlike those on Team Homo here I am open to others opinions and suggestions and accept your correction.

T'would seem a tad illogical to assume that Team Heteromo aren't open to others opinions given that Team Heteromo are understanding of the "needs" of Team Homo. However Team Hetero seem to have a raft of excuses/prejudices to not afford a simple right to Team Homo by not accepting their opinions and suggestions. Are you sure your statement isn't arse about face?

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th August 2012, 10:47

Originally Posted by Quasievil

Gays dont and should get the right to marrige as it belittles those that are married, marrige is and always should be a union between a man and a woman................end of story!!

Much as I adore THE LIFE OF BRIAN, I can't help but think if you are using Monty Python to shore up your argument, even you must sense its weakness.

Please advise specifically how allowing same sex couples to marry "belittles those who are married".

As has been pointed out previously what marriage is has evolved over time.

In the middle ages in britain (some of you will remember this: your attitudes have been entrenched this long, at least) a woman not of noble birth (and even then very rarely) could not own property: the modern family trust evolved from this (kind of- legal scholars, I acknowledge I am drastically oversimplifying here).

in rural Pakistan today, marriages are arranged. Between very young children, and often very old men, who then proceed to rape and brutalise them. But thats marriage, so its OK, right?

But anyway, over to you: looking forward to your explananation.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th August 2012, 10:48

Originally Posted by mashman

T'would seem a tad illogical to assume that Team Heteromo aren't open to others opinions given that Team Heteromo are understanding of the "needs" of Team Homo. However Team Hetero seem to have a raft of excuses/prejudices to not afford a simple right to Team Homo by not accepting their opinions and suggestions. Are you sure your statement isn't arse about face?

"Team Homo"

Really? Thats the level?