GP 2012-2013; bringing it back north

[gav]

All this talk of Ruapuna B track as an option is fine, but it's a real shame that when we run Battle of the Buckets and make it free entry for North Islanders, offer accomodation and pretty much roll out the red carpet for a great weekend of bucket racing, this year only 2 riders made it down. Great to see them, just a shame more weren't able to make the trip.

[crazy man]

All this talk of Ruapuna B track as an option is fine, but it's a real shame that when we run Battle of the Buckets and make it free entry for North Islanders, offer accomodation and pretty much roll out the red carpet for a great weekend of bucket racing, this year only 2 riders made it down. Great to see them, just a shame more weren't able to make the trip.

free entry for North Islanders! let me know after the event

[Bert]

where does $50 come into it? a club licence is $100, a national one is $200. I know I suck at maths, but to me, that's a $100 difference.

Generally these races are about $150 to enter with transponder hire, I think.

for both Henk and myself to race, will cost $500, plus cross entries. That is upgrading the licences and entry fees for one class. spread over a year that's $10 a week, on top of our usual expenses.

that would be our race budget for the year, tyres, track fees etc.
accommodation and fuel doesn't come into it, as that's similar for any away meet. It's being able to justify an extra $440 for a weekend Ai find damned impossible to do.

......

No your maths doesn't suck in terms of the new scheme.
I was mearly comparing price to the old scheme (replaced this year). But I do agree that its a bit steep for one meeting...
but in reality for some it was really 150 bucks for one meeting (plus entry); given there is no need for a licence in welly. (and I didn't say I agree with that either)......

Personally I've carried my licence over most years so if I get a wim to go and race something in my shed I can (MX to sidecars); so I'm not the best to talk I spose...
I can only imagine the extra cost with two or three licences in one house (I don't as of yet have to support or fund another spouse or spawn for racing). I'm sure MNZ do a discount for families..
Though this year I didn't renew my fish and game licence ($150 to allow one to try and catch a trout) so I can't action that wim; the year before I didn't renew my summer golf another wim killer. All in aid of freeing up funds to get back racing..


But you have raised some very valid points; which I'm sure a lot of people are currently thinking.

How dose one justify the extra licence (50 or 100 depending on how you see it) + the cost of a meeting i.e. lots more $$ than the normal weekends F4/F5 racing all for a GP title.
This topic has come up quite a lot over the past few years; there is always going to be a debate around participation (which is the underlying culture of buckets) vs. winning the title (I'm guessing the point Billy made).

there is no answer for this other than running a separate event at a venue with less overall costs.
I know I'm not alone recalling the days of GP's on base that cost a sh!t load less than now; but that's how the cookie crumbles.

All this talk of Ruapuna B track as an option is fine, but it's a real shame that when we run Battle of the Buckets and make it free entry for North Islanders, offer accomodation and pretty much roll out the red carpet for a great weekend of bucket racing, this year only 2 riders made it down. Great to see them, just a shame more weren't able to make the trip.

It just turned out to be bad timing for us; next year I'm sure Team GPR will make the trip down... I mean Christ VIC club put on a van and no bugger took it up...

Maybe we could ask for a cash back deal for competitors that compete in the GP only. Or a special one even upgrade cost of 20 to 30 bucks to cover MNZ admin etc. There must be away to get it sorted. The same could be done for other classes that want to give a national event a go. National day license sort of thing only you need to have it in advance. So not a day license really but you know what I mean. The one nat event license could work. You would need to have competed in whatever amount of club events etc. Any coms to MNZ have to come through a club as I understand.

Rich; great thoughts about a rebate and/or one off national event license...... That is worthy of a follow up.
I'm not sure if one needs a national licence to race in a national round; look at taupo last summer (last round) it was part of the summer series as well; surely there were people racing on day licences in the other classes?? I'll go read the rule book seems as I brought it this year...

But licences were not the only point of this thread. We actually need a GP to have something to moan about $$

Hopefully a few club officials will make comment in due course.

[Grumph]

The whole licensing thing is really out of my domain and should be taken up with the board or office,

That said,If its a National championship at stake,Then of course you will need a National level licence.$50.00 extra in the grand scheme of things is nothing,It is after all a New Zealand title,Ask Dennis Charlett or Glen Williams or any of the others what theirs cost.

While I agree with you on the value of a national title I disagree re this particular event...

There is plenty of precedent existing for one off "grand prix" events in NZ which were not part of the National series...most recent may have been the "historic GP". Over the years there have been plenty of races named as GP's as stand alone events.
Some may say this devalues the true NZ GP titles....as a lot of those "GP's" have been in the NI where the real one has always been in the South, it appears that MNZ's attitude has been fairly permissive shall I say....
I suspect that if procedure is followed and a club applies for the "Bucket GP" title race and specifies that it will be at a club level meeting that that club will get the OK based on previous precedent.

[Billy]

While I agree with you on the value of a national title I disagree re this particular event...

There is plenty of precedent existing for one off "grand prix" events in NZ which were not part of the National series...most recent may have been the "historic GP". Over the years there have been plenty of races named as GP's as stand alone events.
Some may say this devalues the true NZ GP titles....as a lot of those "GP's" have been in the NI where the real one has always been in the South, it appears that MNZ's attitude has been fairly permissive shall I say....
I suspect that if procedure is followed and a club applies for the "Bucket GP" title race and specifies that it will be at a club level meeting that that club will get the OK based on previous precedent.

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

[richban]

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

Ha well said. So true. If there is a GP then I will update my licence to do it. Also plan on doing a nats round or two in the Development class on the bucket.

There maybe a rule change submitted for a one event championship licence soon. This would help with issues like the GP and also works for young riders wanting to do just there local round of the Nationals or a club racer wanting to do a single street race. To be fair on other licence holders I would suggest this upgrade is for one event only. Cost would be dependent on MNZ admin cost etc. Might work might not. I think it has merit for quite a few people not just cry baby bucket racers.

[speedpro]

Originally, way back, bucket racing was run without any "help" from MNZ. It was only because we lost the use of the airfields that we got all official and even then races were run at the Wiri container terminal for instance without official MNZ permits. GPs were run at Wigram, Woodbourne, and Ohakea. At Whenuapai we only ran the signature event, a 6-hour race, once. Generally accepted was that the Ohakea GP was the pinnacle event and rider turnout supported that view. Bucket racing has always been fairly independant thinking, you only need to check the bucket racing regulations to see that, and I see no reason why that couldn't continue. If we collectively decided that "our" GP was going to be at Taupo on a certain date then that should be good enough. It doesn't have to be official and MNZ doesn't have to agree and put the results into the records as a GP result. "We" however could still have appropriate trophies and certificates etc.

[Yow Ling]

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

There seems to be 2 issues here, 1 whether you need a national license, and 2 the new additional charges for the license.
I think the second had an effect on Greymouth entries and will probably affect the future GPs,
Given that Buckets attracts no attention from MNZ in the past, it really does feel like a tax grab for the national one and Working for families with the club one.
Personally I think the discount club licence is a flop and will adversely affect clubs like cams , Greymouth street races , nelson street race, maybe not so much the NI street races as they seem oversubscribed anyway.
There is a positive however in that it discourages the one race a year guys who can sometimes cause a bit of carnage.

So can a GP be run at a club meeting? anyone can enter but not all eligible for the title? A bit like running 2 classes in 1 race

[Buddha#81:Me]

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

Bang on Billy, I got the full Nat Licence to do Greymouth and Methven Street races thats $50 extra per meeting, some didnt and knocked the numbers a bit.

All this shit about money is that, shit! We have the cheapest racing in the world, ask a Pom how much to do a track day in the UK, let alone race there. If you struggle to pay the extra for a full nat licence, i'd say flag racing, you are probally scrimping on important stuff like safety gear.
I'm a single dad of two boys and financially its hard work at times and I make other sacrifices to go racing and ride bikes. But I had two hours last night riding around Ruapuna with my oldest boy on his RS50 for free......yes free, Bang on Motorcycling Canterbury Inc and their training class.....we even had the likes of Dennis Charlett there giving out free advice to our Nick Cains of the future! Hehe and you wonder why the hoogies etc are fast, they all came through this system.

Where should the GP be? B track and run by Cams, you wouldnt get cheaper run, a better track and loads of track time but then we would get all ya NI guys will be moaning that the travel is too expensive.......Well Skunk and Dave came up with a solution last BOB and it was too hard then to fill the truck. It wouldnt matter if Billy made Licence's free for the F4 GP, it would fail on here before it got going,

[Bert]

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

Yip and its always been the case; I don't think that people really have an issue with this in essence (anyone that has attended a GP in the past has already been faced with this).
Yes there has been some realisation that the new scheme has increased cost for a one off event (to bucket only riders I'm sure will not be the only category), who's only national event is a one off race at the mercy of inclusion in other events (to keep costs at a respectable level); if the clubs can fine time to fit it in (or take the risk of running it at all).

And to shoot myself in the foot here; I actually supported the scheme change as it makes bloody good sense across the board of motorcycle racing.
Club level riders get a savings (bucket & trail riders riders might actually get licences...) and provide a safety net (MNZ) for those people running the events.
National series riders pay a little more for the privilege and the required effort for all involved behind the to make it happen (including support to clubs, promotion etc..)...

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

As I said at the start of this thread; proactive discussion to flush out the key issues of why this event may not happen, get them documented and attempt get some form of resolution through the correct channels (hopefully)...

[richban]

Where should the GP be? B track and run by Cams, you wouldnt get cheaper run, a better track and loads of track time but then we would get all ya NI guys will moan that the travel is too expensive.......Well Skunk and Dave came up with a solution last BOB and it was too hard then to fill the truck. It wouldnt matter if Billy made Licence's free for the F4 GP, it would fail on here before it got going,

Well there was that little issue before the event that tainted people's views off BOB a little. Best to keep that sort of shit off the web. Does not help promote events. Me I just could not make it due to injury and work. If the GP was in the south I would go. Can B track handle 60 bikes whats the limit for an event like that. Personally as I have said before there are 2 premier national Bucket events BOB and the GP. Makes sense to keep one in the south and one in the north. Obviously they need a little better coms and organization. Looks like BOB now has a sustainable model now. All we need now is one for the GP.

[Shorty_925]

And to shoot myself in the foot here; I actually supported the scheme change as it makes bloody good sense across the board of motorcycle racing.
Club level riders get a savings (bucket & trail riders riders might actually get licences...) and provide a safety net (MNZ) for those people running the events.

Trail riders wont, just look at how popular Epic Events run trail rides are, and their Taupo 4 hour. Theres plenty of other non-mnz events(dirt) out there and are run under private insurance and otheres that are not. Summer Cross anyone?

[F5 Dave]

My take is if we can get club level support we would be better running the GP at a semi stand alone event. Sort of like Taupo that Pacific ran GP before last.

They wibbled as teh event didn't make money, but on the other hand it didn't lose it (I believe). The idea of mixing in Motards & a track day was inspired.

The only problem is it rained. If it was dry & there was enough advertising (ie a decent post on KB general section for a starter), then there would have been considerably more takers.

The other thing I am against is transponders. Yeah they are cool & make organising much easier. but countless races have been held with some rider's missus doing the lap scoring & being given some bubbly & a cheer afterwards at prizegiving. This dramatically lowers costs for everyone involved. Gets us an event where we aren't the poor cousin & can actually get some track time.

Heck if we could do that sensibly the extra for a national license would be a far lesser issue.


The problem is we need a club ready to take that on. I'm not sure where Pacific is but I hear they lost money on the big event, or rather Taupo track didn't get any gate sales (no promotion) so it was a bit messy. With Roys hill out of action maybe there isn't the bucket force in the club.

Vic club, well it pretty much comes down to Skunk. You've never met a more dedicated volunteer, but he is running on very little spare time & frankly the fall out from the BOB drop out when he went to organise travel certainly didn't help. These people need our help, not just, oh yeah, I'll come & then pull out.

A 'B' track Manfield event like the on in Feb (sadly on a Sat) would be a good option.

[Grumph]

Nope,

The rules are quite clear,If its a National championship race,Then you require a National licence,

The one thing that has become obvious too me since taking on this job is,Everybody wants the rules enforced until theres something that affects them directly,Then theres some special reason why that particular rule shouldn't apply,If anybody's not happy with the rules the way they are,Then they are entitled to apply for a rulechange through the proper channels,Its called contributing to the advancement of the sport.

Still disagree with the first part of your reply....If the "bucket GP" is a national championship or part of one it's the first I've heard of it...

Does this mean that the winner of this race will receive official recognition from MNZ ?

The title "Grand Prix" has been attatched to races and events previously which are not and never have been part of a National championship and will be attatched again if someone sees advantage in so doing.

I was told recently down here in the SI that one of the distinctions - I don't know how many there are - that identifies a meeting where the full licence is required is an admission charge on the gate....Never heard of this happening at a bucket meeting...

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Does this mean that the winner of this race will receive official recognition from MNZ ?
...

Well to be fair most years I have, when I've won one, like a medal thingy, which is nice, Think I've had to hassle them for it in the past, I might be short one, but they've been pretty well organised in last 5 years or so.
but I did get a bit miffed that one year they sent out a MNZ year book to all holders & it contained all the national winners, including the 9-12yr old trailbike class, but of course Buckets were not included.

I didn't get one for the Open 50GP in Chch as there was a clash in rules & open to non national licence holders (ie day) so it wasn't recognised as a MNZ GP, but heck I've got the trophy so I know, that's all I cared about, but more importantly it was a fun days racing.

I did note with some amusment that in that list 5 out of 8 (or something like that) of the road race names listed were ex or current bucketeers.