Forced licence progression

[skippa1]

I'm concerned about sharing the road with someone who having never proven their competent just assumes it.

yep

laziness is not a virtue I would like to see in motorists. force them to upgrade.

and yep

[Zedder]

Well seems the Govt is going ahead with their money grabbing forced licence progression

"The Government is going to put 5 year time limits on people staying on a learner or restricted licence."

Me, I think it's the most retarded idea ever to try & force people to graduate especially if those people aren't capable (& don't give me no shit about "they'll fail the test then", look at the drivers out there!) This is just a pure money grab from the Govt I can't see any other "reason" for it.

I spent around 8yrs or so on a bike learners because the restricted was such a fucking waste of money it offered nothing but cost alot, I've also been sitting on a truck licence for a couple years, I don't need it for a job it is a personal choice to progress up the truck ladder but at the same time I don't have readily accessible trucks to just go get my licence with, so I just sit until the opportunity presents itself. I don't want to be forced to go hire a truck or lose my licence & have to redo a pointless overpriced multi-choice all over again just because the Govt wants more useless drivers & money

A while back before all the new graduated licencing Scube, there used to be just a provisional one which lasted 30 days. The idea being you were meant to "learn more" before going to a full. From memory you could roll it over a few times but then lost it if you didn't get a full licence.

However, there wasn't the huge emphasis on Gubbermint gaining money from everything in those days unlike now. Also, things were obviously not driven by ACC etc.

If you take the money grubbing by tptb out of the equation though, 5 years is a long time to get licenced.

[bluninja]

Actually its a right, its defined as such in law.

ANYONE who meets the criteria, pays the fee and passes the test can get a licence.

A privilege is something that is extended to a select few, and is simply not available even if you meet all the criteria.

I disagree entirely. If we had the right to drive there would be no license requirement. But because driving is a privilege (a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions. ) then you must become licensed and pass the requirements defined in law.

I have the right to free speech, therefore I can say and post utter bollox without the requirement for accreditation, certification, or a license. I realise it would be useful if people speaking in public were competent and qualified to speak, but that's rights for ya.

[davereid]

I disagree entirely. If we had the right to drive there would be no license requirement. But because driving is a privilege (a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions. ) then you must become licesnes and pass the requirements defined in law.

I have the right to free speech, therefore I can say and post utter bollox without the requirement for accreditation, certification, or a license. I realise it would be useful if people speaking in public were competent and qualified to speak, but that's rights for ya.

A license makes legal that which would otherwise be illegal.

The way it is allocated is the determiner of right of privilege, not the fact that a license exists.

If you meet the criteria you have the RIGHT to have a drivers licence.
You can't be denied it just because you aren't part of an elite.

Although it seems that NZ Driver Licensing consider it a privilege. Even if you pass the test they will fail you 2/3rds of the time.

[bluninja]

A license makes legal that which would otherwise be illegal.

The way it is allocated is the determiner of right of privilege, not the fact that a license exists.

If you meet the criteria you have the RIGHT to have a drivers licence.
You can't be denied it just because you aren't part of an elite.

Although it seems that NZ Driver Licensing consider it a privilege. Even if you pass the test they will fail you 2/3rds of the time.

That makes it a privilege; it is a the granting of a special right under certain conditions. QED
Also, as a right it cannot be taken away. Thus speeding, DIC, could not remove your right to drive. However if you have the privilege to drive via the licensed driver system then that privilege may be removed as you no longer meet certain conditions.

On a philosophical note, I think it's the attitude that driving is a right, rather than a privilege to be earned, that makes many people think that costs involved in training and assessments, and continuous improvement are money grabbing and not worth it = crap drivers = more accidents.

[Gremlin]

Want to drive on the roads? Then follow the rules that others have to (as said, it's a priviledge not a right)... Learners is a theory test only and then you're on the road. Plenty ignore the conditions and who knows what they are like?

Now uh, that said, I've had my car learners since late 2005 I think. Restricted is booked mid Feb. Why? Well, I figured since I was in the AA for my bike restricted I may as well do the car learners to get that done, then time could tick away and I would practise when the opporunity arose. Fast forward to end of 2012, I figured I really should get on with it and had barely driven (still probably haven't done 1000km in a car yet). In contrast, I've clocked up more than 250,000km on bikes. Since I rode, there was never really a need for a car licence, and I never owned a car either to practise with. Also probably a bit of laziness, as I was riding instead.

I'm for the rules, I want a skilled driving population in NZ.

The curious thing has been trying to get to grips with cars over the last couple of months. Smooth steering (can't just lean and the bike flops into the corner), throttle control with a foot used to using a back brake, and probably the hardest, knowing the dimensions of the 4 wheeled contraption for parking...

[pzkpfw]

Maybe they should just have more restrictions on the non-full licenses? (To stop them being "attractive").

Who's for a 70 k/h limit?

[p.dath]

...But NZ Driver Licensing has been caught out, with a memo requiring testers to fail 2/3 of applicants...

Wow. I say Wow again. I find that very surprising.

So it is not a test of merit at all.

[wharekura]

This is all null and void. Fork out a few bucks and get a Maori Drivers License. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=46b_1245548514

Anyway - I had my learners for 20 years until last year when I finally went through the new regime and obtained my 6F.

[Flip]

Complete your drivers licence or loose it. IMHO five years is long enough. I don't want to share the road with any learners.

[Headbanger]

Heh, I got my learners bike license a couple weeks back.

Its only been 2 decades.

next bike is to be a tad lame.

[GTRMAN]

A license makes legal that which would otherwise be illegal.

The way it is allocated is the determiner of right of privilege, not the fact that a license exists.

If you meet the criteria you have the RIGHT to have a drivers licence.
You can't be denied it just because you aren't part of an elite.

Although it seems that NZ Driver Licensing consider it a privilege. Even if you pass the test they will fail you 2/3rds of the time.

So how does that work? They fail you 2/3 of the time even if you pass??

Interesting that we have multiple threads around motorcycle safety etc and now we are debating whether or not you need a full licence??

You may well have the RIGHT to APPLY for a licence, but you must meet the requirements to OBTAIN that licence. Yes that means passing the tests. You are not denied because you are not on of the 'haves' you are denied because you have not met that standard.

Real change in the road toll comes from having a better standard of driving.

[Zedder]

NZ Herald article about the leaked quota memo:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10837402

[davereid]

So how does that work? They fail you 2/3 of the time even if you pass??

Yeah. NZ Driver Licencing Ltd is a private company granted a monopoly by the NZTA to do driver licence testing.

It has a written policy requiring testers to fail 60% of applicants.

[scumdog]

Yeah that argument is kinda of invalid, 8 years... if you cant figure out how to drive after that then get the fuck off the road .

Who says she's 'figured out how to drive'? or otherwise??

A lack of crashes is not proof of an individual driving capability...