Why work? A couple from the UK asks

[unstuck]

Got some beef stuff walking in the paddocks.
Got a couple of big rain water tanks fir the house (don't remember capacity, enough for a one year drought with the family here)
Got saws, axes and log splitters.

I iz a cunt-tree bumpkin ya womble, we're sorted

Good man. Just checking.

[unstuck]

Why the hell did they ever get rid of the p.e.p. schemes of the 80,s, that was a great idea I thought. I learnt quite a bit on the one I did when I was on the dole for a little while back then, at least we were out working, the wage was not the best but better than the dole.

[SMOKEU]

Come on - even you can do better than that ...

Did you know that in 2010 the Māori economy assset base was $36.9billion ??? That the biggest group of owners of Fonterra (New Zealand's largest company ) are Māori ??? That means there are more Māōri diary farmers than Pākehā dairy farmers .. (Probably a scarey thought for the racists ... )

We are not the dole bludgers you think we are (I probably pay more tax a week than you get in benefits ... am I supporting you?)

How much of those assets were handed to Maori from the NZ government?

[unstuck]

How much of those assets were handed to Maori from the NZ government?

How many of those assets were stolen from them by the nz government.

[ducatilover]

Good man. Just checking.

Do I get a choccy fush?

How many of those assets were stolen from them by the nz government.

Err. None.

The Crown took a bunch though

[Banditbandit]

How much of those assets were handed to Maori from the NZ government?

So far - less than $1billion - out of $36.9billion ... No sorry - good try but a deadend ...

How many of those assets were stolen from them by the nz government.

Good question - quite a lot really at least the land assets ... the fishing assets ... quite a bit of cultural capital and cultural products ...

Err. None.

The Crown took a bunch though

"The Crown" was not in favour of colonization -"the Crown" recognised that the country belonged to Māori (whom they called "New ZEalanders")- recognised the 1835 Declaration of Independence ... did not want to sign a treaty - specifically instructed Hobson NOT to sign a treaty ...

Our problem has always really been with people here - not the British Crown ... just sometimes the people here use "The Crown" as an idea to hide behind ... not unlike hiding behind mother's skirts ...

[Brian d marge]

The things that stops me from living of the land;

A; I live in tokyo , B, Coffee ( need coffee, get to work Afrian people ) and C. I friggen Knackered after a days work for the "man"

All joking aside. Ive been running a few trials; Aquaponics , gardening etc , every year I try something new. Im nearly at the point where I can say "Fk it " and know I will be ok Some sticking points , fuel , coffee, ie some of the stuff I cant grow or it is uneconomic to grow.

Therefore I need an " income " of sorts. As I wouldnt need to earn very much, the income could be low paid farm work. Of which I enjoy.

Which brings me back to ...., the system, which itself is flawed. If NZ banks operate on fiat money , then its flawed and what ever the stupids in wellington say , they cant change that fact .

We aint going to change it sometime soon. So theres no point getting pent up about it , but there IS a point in making securing a "life" or future proofing you and your family. The English couple , sod the system lets take what we can get. ( under a moneterist economy , the "Im all right Jack , screw you " way of thinking will get worse , see NZ for that ) . The boys in wellington , all justifying the money somehow.

The thing that sits in my craw , is if you "try " to live outside, then you WILL be forced to be part of society, try not paying rates or building a non conforming house.

Finally remember the story was in the " sun" and a beat up, like NZ , the population pans out in a similar fashion , most people receiving assistance are of the older varity , Dole bludgers and the single mum are less than half. Those who abuse the system are less still. ( though in england the system is wide open to abuse and there is a culture of benefit fraud and more prone to be abused . unlike NZ.


Stephen

[007XX]

Morals and ethics. What's moral about valuing someone's effort based on how it is perceived? What's moral about someone having $5 million in the bank and earning money for no other reason than they have money in the bank (that money costing jobs and removing money from circulation etc... and in the hands of 1 person (multiplied by X richies))? What's moral about a bank that charges interest on money they pull from thin air? What's moral about being humble in word and not deed (does anyone quit their job to make room for someone who has been on the dole for a while?). Plenty of working people earn money for nothing, yet you don't complain because they are perceived to be doing something. I doubt the majority of the unemployed asked to be made redundant. People have bills to pay or they lose everything they have worked for, whilst those who have relieved them of their job don't "suffer" in the slightest.

There are so many wrongs in this world it's stunning. Even if there were no jobs left in the country, there would still be those who were unemployed. Would you be happier then? In the article of the OP, they guy said he has had offers on jobs and I understand his logic for not taking them given the economics of the situation. Take on board debt? Why? Put themselves under financial pressure? Why?

If I lose my job, my family loses everything, potentially worse. Can you tell me why we should bother to try again?

Sorry, but I honestly think it is your turn to over complicate the situation.

The matter at hand is about people taking advantage of a system without giving back. I have no issues with someone coming in to strife and needing a hand from the government ( I did for about 3 months years ago, and paid it all back once employed again).

Just like in the old days of villagehood, if you had nothing to trade ( be it goods or services), you didn't get food or any services given to you, unless you were a beggar.

Put themselves under financial pressure? So fucking what? It happens, get over it, get up again. There are no guarantees ever, and yet, does it mean it is better to do nothing? I'm sorry, but that's just not how I can see things. These two could go back to school, they CHOSE not to: lazy. Tinking about bringing another child into this world and get another hand out for it...

I guess we are on different sides of this debate based on personal experiences. I don't know yours, but I know I have lost everything twice and got back up, started making smarter choices and am now gambling again by going back to Uni at 36 years of age( albeit with some safety nets in place) so I can be more comfortable to provide for my family.

I'm not saying I'm a paragon of all that's perfect. But I am saying that as a first world country, our priorities have shifted dramatically from what is truly important and that the criterias for benefits handed out need to be revised and people on the benefit should not see it as a way of life.

[Zedder]

So far - less than $1billion - out of $36.9billion ... No sorry - good try but a deadend ...




Good question - quite a lot really at least the land assets ... the fishing assets ... quite a bit of cultural capital and cultural products ...



"The Crown" was not in favour of colonization -"the Crown" recognised that the country belonged to Māori (whom they called "New ZEalanders")- recognised the 1835 Declaration of Independence ... did not want to sign a treaty - specifically instructed Hobson NOT to sign a treaty ...

Our problem has always really been with people here - not the British Crown ... just sometimes the people here use "The Crown" as an idea to hide behind ... not unlike hiding behind mother's skirts ...

Try $2.5 billion of settlements and climbing, approx 40 claims to be finalised totalling a further $435 million ish. Back in the day, 13 Maori chiefs pestered the British Government to form a treaty to protect their trading rights etc. Maori instigated the whole thing.

[bogan]

Our problem has always really been with people here

Hey, look, we agree again

[Ocean1]

And here is a dissenting view based not on one couple, but on balanced academic research. Favourite quote: "You're not living, you're existing" [on the benefit].
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/jo...ce?INTCMP=SRCH

part of a research project exploring the lived experiences of welfare reform, I have been speaking to individuals directly affected by the government's measures.

So, now that we know the bludgers think they're not getting enough why don't we ask those paying their way?

Honestly, is anyone surprised at the "research" findings? Does anyone ever listen to liberal academics that leap into print at the smell of a grant? Did anyone bother reading beyond the first paragraph?

[Ocean1]

I can only deal with so much dribble, this bit'll do for now.

If I lose my job, my family loses everything, potentially worse. Can you tell me why we should bother to try again?

So that someone else doesn't have to do it for you.

Is that clear enough?

[Ocean1]

I had one of these in Hawke's Bay - our whole water supply depended on it ... I'd recommend these too - simple to put together - no issues, apart from occassionally greasing the seals ..

It's on the long term plan, a small one in the stream through the lower orchard, to pump water about 4 metres back up to the pond that irrigates it.

[Ocean1]

am now gambling again by going back to Uni at 36 years of age( albeit with some safety nets in place) so I can be more comfortable to provide for my family.

Told you engineering was the one true calling, glad you've finally come to your senses, babe.

[mashman]

Sorry, but I honestly think it is your turn to over complicate the situation.

The matter at hand is about people taking advantage of a system without giving back. I have no issues with someone coming in to strife and needing a hand from the government ( I did for about 3 months years ago, and paid it all back once employed again).

Just like in the old days of villagehood, if you had nothing to trade ( be it goods or services), you didn't get food or any services given to you, unless you were a beggar.

Put themselves under financial pressure? So fucking what? It happens, get over it, get up again. There are no guarantees ever, and yet, does it mean it is better to do nothing? I'm sorry, but that's just not how I can see things. These two could go back to school, they CHOSE not to: lazy. Tinking about bringing another child into this world and get another hand out for it...

I guess we are on different sides of this debate based on personal experiences. I don't know yours, but I know I have lost everything twice and got back up, started making smarter choices and am now gambling again by going back to Uni at 36 years of age( albeit with some safety nets in place) so I can be more comfortable to provide for my family.

I'm not saying I'm a paragon of all that's perfect. But I am saying that as a first world country, our priorities have shifted dramatically from what is truly important and that the criterias for benefits handed out need to be revised and people on the benefit should not see it as a way of life.

Oh do you now . The situation is simple. There's more than enough of us to fill the positions available. Therefore there will be people who are unemployed. I will be funding anyone who isn't employed. It ends there for me as it is an absolute inevitability. That's simple... yet those simple facts are unacceptable for some because of a whole raft of a whole raft of reasons. Jealousy masked as indignation. As you said, get over it. I take it you object to charity?

I get it. As I said before I used to think exactly the same things as yourself. Good for nothings etc... look at me trying and them feckers doing nothing. I spent 6 years in an old gangster street in Glasgow. It changed my opinion of the people, not so much their actions. My acceptance of their actions is a very recent thing. I did similar to yourself 2 years ago, left my 110k+ job and wasn't due any assistance. Spent 8 weeks unemployed so caught up no the latest technology, went to interviews to find out what the market needed etc... Got a job. The bank were cunts from the get go and if smacking someone in the face for being condescending was legal, I would have laid the lady out cold. I asked for a mortgage holiday for 6 weeks, they told me to fill up my credit card first. Fuck 'em.

No doubt back in villagehood days those without just took and made a living that way... some things never change. Reckon there weren't enough jobs the too? No jobs and no "assets" = you derserve to die. Triffic.

They have CHOSEN not to put themselves under any pressure. I can appreciate that. Especially with a young kid. I wish I had done similar in ways and am trying to get into that situation without having to resort to financially sacrificing my family's well being. Useless stat attack. The US reported that 90% of divorces are over money. Are the two in the article irresponsible? I don't see how they are really. Just very realistic in regards to their job prospects and weighing up how much better off they'd be and not just in financial terms. Happiness has a price and they've found theirs. In regards to kids, I'd love to see men undergo a vasectomy after they have 2 kids... then it'll be all the woman's fault if she has more than 2

We are on different sides and I'd be surprised if it was down to personal experiences (My money, heh, is on world view being the dividing factor). I don't see us two as having had radically different lives. I saw my mum lose everything and send us off to live with my dad. I've lived amongst doley's for 6 years. I've been unbelievably broke with a kid. The whole spectrum of ok, better, better, better, better etc... Not no more though. I have a brand new shiney world view that includes 7 billion people, of which more than half are supposed to live in poverty, I've seen the results of war first hand, and I have learned that the entire system is perpetuated by some useless cunts protecting a financial system that's not only corrupt, but devoid of true morals and ethics. I've learned that it's the economy that is the reason that people should not only have less, but should also have their effort valued by the perception of how difficult their chosen career is. It's bullshit. The lot of it. So I see no reason to persecute people who are stuck in inevitable positions, even when they CHOOSE to live off of the "state". Anyhoo, Wotcha gonna study?

I could not have phrased that last paragraph any better... although my reasoning behind your words looks to be entirely different.