MNZ and the internet

[nodrog:Me]

Y

Then a private "MNZ Racers" Facebook group is far and away your best option Billy. Until (if) google+ gets a critical mass then Facebook's got the best tools (has integration with PC's, TV's, tablets and moby phones...even older ones), is super easy to manage and is most likely to get MNZ racers using and discussing stuff on it. Because many are likely to be already using Facebook they don't have to fark about registering on yet another site. You also can wash your hands of most of the admin, forgotten passwords, legal, anti-hacking, site update stuff, etc

https://www.facebook.com/about/groups/

Fucksake, now i have to join facebook, this shits getting out of control.

Um back to the root cause of all this drama- what is stopping some knob jockey copyong and pasting something from the secret squirrel site and posting it on a public forum, emailing their mates, sending it into the womens weekly? Csusing exactly the same problems you are trying to avoid?

Will we have to call you Billy Dotcom?

[Genestho]

The best example I have is one we had at Vic Club. We used to run long track at Manfeild. Someone made a very public statement that it was unsafe and the only solution was an airfence. Once that statement was made Vic Club must run an airfence just in case someone crashes. Otherwise Vic Club faces very serious questions about whether it took 'due care'. Financially it's the end of long track at Manfeild.
Had that been done in a private discussion it could have been discussed. The same concussion may have been the result; but there could have been discussion.

Next issue is the 'dirty laundry' side of things. We don't wish to look like we're a bunch of dysfunctional idiots (even if we are) to sponsors and public. We can deal with issues, complaints and suggestions openly with each other without putting any public off.

Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum. You don't have to log in to read it. It's searchable on the internet. That to me is NOT the way to discuss organisational matters. I don't know of any organisation that does. Even clubs have Committee meetings that members can attend. They don't tend to have them in the local Mall...

If you want input into MNZ and won't use the proper channels something else needs to be done; and what Sir Billy is looking at seems a good idea.

Precisely.
If individuals, collectives, clubs and event organisers are to seek Sponsorship and attempt to look outside of the Industry into the corporate world (which is a really good idea so there's far less conflicts of interest and more room to breathe for all)
It would be very difficult to present a professional package based on public KB Racing discussions, for some that don't seek sponsorship to pay the bills it doesn't matter but! face it, surely at least 80% are. And then you have event sponsorship, why would "I" (Collective) inject 10k into an event where people act unprofessional in public forums?

There's no other "professional" sport in the country with publically available discussion forums. For good reason - Brand wreckage.

KB is a great thing for shooting the breeze, it brings "fans" closer, but the rest really isn't a good look, as a collective or presentable package. IMO.

[scrivy]

what is stopping some knob jockey copyong and pasting something from the secret squirrel site and posting it on a public forum, emailing their mates

That's a serious issue Noddy.
Image how shit could be taken out of context if only 1 piece (or half the info) was pasted somewhere. Would cause an uproar for people not in the know.

[Biggles08]

That's a serious issue Noddy.
Image how shit could be taken out of context if only 1 piece (or half the info) was pasted somewhere. Would cause an uproar for people not in the know.

Another reason why the website needs to be "owned" by MNZ as then they can dictate the terms of accepting entry into the forum, one of which I'd imagine would include a clause of owning the copy-write of all text that is shared on the forum.

Billy and I disagree on many fronts however this idea of a forum designed for MNZ members, or indeed a section of MNZ members (Road Racing) I have long been an advocate for. There are far too many benefits to ignore doing it. Many of you I believe are confusing an 'open forum' with 'a forum designed for open conversation.' Just because you need to be pre-qualified to be a contributor does not mean the conversation cannot be open. I believe in fact the opposite will be the case as we would finally have a place to go, safely without worrying about anonymous abuse or time wasting keyboard wannabes ruining good conversation. I welcome a forum where racers can be open and frank at the issues we face without the crap that normally comes with posting these on an open forum. The recent debacle of the thread I started recently would never had occurred had this type of forum been available.

On this idea, well done Billy.

[nodrog:Me]

Will there be a secret handshake?

Whats stopping me selling my login to the Truth?

[Mental Trousers]

....

....

Nice to see there are some people around here that understand these things.

Having slept (well) on this, I think it's a good idea, you'll just need to make sure an old boys culture doesn't form.

Always a danger with something like a private forum. Usually the best way to sort that out is to have independent Moderators and keep a tight rein on who can do what.

It's an interesting problem.

Um back to the root cause of all this drama- what is stopping some knob jockey copyong and pasting something from the secret squirrel site and posting it on a public forum, emailing their mates, sending it into the womens weekly? Csusing exactly the same problems you are trying to avoid?

I think you'll find that if MNZ own the forum and a member does that they will get slapped with the misconduct and privacy procedures MNZ already have in place. I'd speculate that the person doing so would run the risk of permanently losing their competition licence as well as criminal proceedings.

Don't know anyone that's willing to sacrifice their competition licence.

[nodrog:Me]

Nice to see there are some people around here that understand these things.



Always a danger with something like a private forum. Usually the best way to sort that out is to have independent Moderators and keep a tight rein on who can do what.

It's an interesting problem.



I think you'll find that if MNZ own the forum and a member does that they will get slapped with the misconduct and privacy procedures MNZ already have in place. I'd speculate that the person doing so would run the risk of permanently losing their competition licence as well as criminal proceedings.

Don't know anyone that's willing to sacrifice their competition licence.

But who would know where it came from? Apparently you can be confidential on the internet.

[Mental Trousers]

But who would know where it came from? Apparently you can be confidential on the internet.

You're asking a question about something that has to happen before it can be answered.

If it's serious enough then I'm sure skilled, professional investigators would be involved.

[sidecar bob]

Will there be a secret handshake?

Not sure, but you can get a cool fluro vest if youre a good boy.
If they have it on facebook I will not be involved, although that probably isint a bad thing for the rest of you.

[scrivy]

I think you'll find that if MNZ own the forum and a member does that they will get slapped with the misconduct and privacy procedures MNZ already have in place. I'd speculate that the person doing so would run the risk of permanently losing their competition licence as well as criminal proceedings.

Whoooaaaaaaa.......

Hang on a minute.........

What is MNZ's 'Privacy' procedure? And where does one find it?

Also, since when is copying and pasting from an uncopyrighted internet site a 'Criminal' offence?


I am a bit hessitant about MNZ running the forum for current racers only, as I believe we do need input from all track users, not just MNZ licensed ones. What about non-MNZ members that race on day/club licenses? Or people that are not in affiliated clubs?? Surely they should be privy to safety information too?
Eg. If there is discussion about a slowing bike being hit by following bikes (and we all know the sad consequences of that), why should a track day rider not have that knowledge readily available to them also? Or even the information sharing about the sidecar brake issue. What if a non MNZ member was to crash (or cause a crash) at a fun/test/trackday without any knowledge of relevant information from a discussion??
With the topic in the thread that was deleted, what if that happened at a track day? The ramifications would be huge to all track users.

I personally believe (to be said as Miss America...), that all track users need input, afterall, the results from this new forum will affect all track users.
Safety first - with all track users input.

Or have I missed something?

Scrivy

[Mental Trousers]

What is MNZ's 'Privacy' procedure? And where does one find it?

You're making the same mistake as most others - wanting to make an issue of something instead of finding out the facts.

Ask the correct people and they'll tell you whether there is or isn't a privacy policy. I don't know if there is cos I can't recall everything we're meant to have read (constitution, code of conduct, legal stuff etc) off the top of my head.

[scrivy]

You're making the same mistake as most others - wanting to make an issue of something instead of finding out the facts.

Ask the correct people and they'll tell you whether there is or isn't a privacy policy. I don't know if there is cos I can't recall everything we're meant to have read (constitution, code of conduct, legal stuff etc) off the top of my head.

Not trying to nitpick MT, just stating a fact. I know more about the GCR's and Constitution than most, just don't know anything about a 'Privacy' policy.
Oh, and I have talked to Billy for about an hour over the last 4 days too.
Like I said, not nitpicking, just asking, in case I had missed something.

[lostinflyz]

The best example I have is one we had at Vic Club. We used to run long track at Manfeild. Someone made a very public statement that it was unsafe and the only solution was an airfence. Once that statement was made Vic Club must run an airfence just in case someone crashes. Otherwise Vic Club faces very serious questions about whether it took 'due care'. Financially it's the end of long track at Manfeild.
Had that been done in a private discussion it could have been discussed. The same concussion may have been the result; but there could have been discussion.

Next issue is the 'dirty laundry' side of things. We don't wish to look like we're a bunch of dysfunctional idiots (even if we are) to sponsors and public. We can deal with issues, complaints and suggestions openly with each other without putting any public off.

Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum. You don't have to log in to read it. It's searchable on the internet. That to me is NOT the way to discuss organisational matters. I don't know of any organisation that does. Even clubs have Committee meetings that members can attend. They don't tend to have them in the local Mall...

If you want input into MNZ and won't use the proper channels something else needs to be done; and what Sir Billy is looking at seems a good idea.

The laws of this country actually demand that you take all practicable steps to ensure the safety of the enviroment you create. This is defined not by whether something is said or known, but whether something should have been done. One can always introduce risk so long as you clearly have assessed the risk and mitagated this as practicable as possible. This is regardless or whether the discussion was open or private, or you knew or did not. The questions is always should you have known and did you take reasonable steps to mitigate.

Bike clubs have open committee meeting that all there members can attend, and they the right to speak openly at appropriate times regardless of the member involvement in the club. The MNZ communication tool at the moment seems to be to have all member contact individuals for information that often is not readily and easily available. Surely this is not right, and going to a more controlled enviroment is even worse. Its like going to work and not knowing what your supposed to do, getting told "oh but you should know!" then not being able to go to the managers meeting where they change what your supposed to be doing.

[Billy]

Whoooaaaaaaa.......

Hang on a minute.........

What is MNZ's 'Privacy' procedure? And where does one find it?

Also, since when is copying and pasting from an uncopyrighted internet site a 'Criminal' offence?


I am a bit hessitant about MNZ running the forum for current racers only, as I believe we do need input from all track users, not just MNZ licensed ones. What about non-MNZ members that race on day/club licenses? Or people that are not in affiliated clubs?? Surely they should be privy to safety information too?
Eg. If there is discussion about a slowing bike being hit by following bikes (and we all know the sad consequences of that), why should a track day rider not have that knowledge readily available to them also? Or even the information sharing about the sidecar brake issue. What if a non MNZ member was to crash (or cause a crash) at a fun/test/trackday without any knowledge of relevant information from a discussion??
With the topic in the thread that was deleted, what if that happened at a track day? The ramifications would be huge to all track users.

I personally believe (to be said as Miss America...), that all track users need input, afterall, the results from this new forum will affect all track users.
Safety first - with all track users input.

Or have I missed something?

Scrivy

Yip,

As discussed earlier by phone,Some valid points and clearly there are a lot of issues to sort out,BUT track day riders are not within my jurisdiction and neither are they my concern,I am more interested in hearing good quality,Well thought out feedback and ideas,To be honest,There are very few people that post on this site that I actually take notice of,Pretty much nowadays theres really only yourself and sidecar bob and a handful of others that really understand how MNZ operates or what the organisation actually is,All the movers in the sport understand how to get things done and most,Either don't bother with KB anymore or have visited and can't believe the chestbeating and poppycock that gets spouted on here,Those are the folks I want to get talking with.They are the future of the sport,Pretty sure you can pick the ones from KB that will visit.

Trust me this forum based site will be formed and it will be where most of the decision making for roadracing will be formed outside of the channels I already have of course,For those that just want to have a yarn about racing in general or whatever else there will always be KB

[jellywrestler]

Miss America

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Miss America