ANZACs and war and stuff

[mashman]

Wilfred Owen (1893-1918)
"Dulce et Decorum Est "

I had that for an interpretation at school and even then it painted a horrific picture.

[Edbear]

It's disappointing, but not particularly surprising, that you would use Anzac Day commemorations to slide JW doctrines under the door.

Care to point them out for us?

Just as well that not everyone is a soft cock like you, ed. You wouldn't have the freedom to write the crap you do, and you wouldn't be driving a Japanese car by choice....

As usual you make assumptions without knowing, or even wanting to know, anything about me, or JW's for that matter. You are making yourself appear the bigoted fool you are.

My Grandfather fought in the Solomon Islands, and a great uncle flew in the Battle of Britain.

Neither talked of the glory of war, and they never attended commemoration services (which is not to say that they didn't remember or grieve their comrades).

I am sitting here looking at two photo's of my grandfather- one was taking before he shipped out; he is smiling with his cobbers, looking fresh faced and expectant. The second was taken after a few months in the Solomons- he has the look of a much older man who has been through experiences that I can't even begin to imagine. There was no glory in war for him, he came back a tougher, harder and more volatile man.

Although he spoke fondly of knocking seven shades of shit out some marines in Manners Mall in Wellington during a rolling street brawl.......

I have tremendous empathy for those like him.

While ANZAC Day can be a time to reflect on the futility of war it is primarily an opportunity to show thanks to those who made the sacrifice to protect the freedom we enjoy today - without questioning their motivations for doing so.

Ed is a cock.

Care to show where I have questioned anyone's motives? You are as Pussy is, dumb and dumber.

[Oscar]

I haven't noticed. Perhaps you're looking for it more given the research attached to your beliefs?

As for war in general. I would sign up only to defend NZ from invaders but not to slaughter people to gain access to their resources for the privileged few. Other than that, War, HUH, what is it good for... absolutely nothing yuwaw

This is the sort of cowardly ignorance that allows tyranny to spread.
Have a look at the origins of World War 2 and you'll find a lot of people that spoke like you.

[mashman]

This is the sort of cowardly ignorance that allows tyranny to spread.
Have a look at the origins of World War 2 and you'll find a lot of people that spoke like you.

You know fuck all about me sunshine let alone why I would go to war... and I certainly won't where it's killing people for no other reason than fighting for resources. As I've said before, there are plenty of modern day atrocity's that take place every day around the world... and yet the might of our army's will fly over these places to get to somewhere where "terrorists" live and where life is relatively peaceful. How "we" pick and choose wars is fuckin disgraceful and highly distasteful given that we ignore so many humanitarian disasters.
Get your head out of the history books dickhead and look at today!

[Oscar]

You know fuck all about me sunshine let alone why I would go to war... and I certainly won't where it's killing people for no other reason than fighting for resources. As I've said before, there are plenty of modern day atrocity's that take place every day around the world... and yet the might of our army's will fly over these places to get to somewhere where "terrorists" live and where life is relatively peaceful. How "we" pick and choose wars is fuckin disgraceful and highly distasteful given that we ignore so many humanitarian disasters.
Get your head out of the history books dickhead and look at today!

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[mashman]

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Naive much? It's continuing to happen today irrespective of historical study.

[Maha]

The sad reality of any war conflict is that people die.

On ANZAC Day, people of all ages turn out to remember those who have fought in any war that has had NZ representation. The ANZAC’s were from one particular conflict in one particular war, and a large number of those killed were drafted civilians. That scenario will never happen again.That is the true anguish of ANZAC Day.

WWI saw Kids as young as 19-20 being taken into hell and never to return. Recent wars seem petty by comparison. I don’t mean to sound condescending towards those have been to war, but once you are in the army, you are no longer a civilian. When you are called to action, it’s time to put your training in a real life situation, like thousand before you did, with minimal (and at times, no) training.

[tri boy]

All I know about war/ANZACs and the like, is many men from our country gave up their tomorrows, so many others could enjoy their today's, in the manner that they (the fallen) missed out on.
Respect.

[Oscar]

Naive much? It's continuing to happen today irrespective of historical study.

What is?
Isolationism, like the US before Pearl Harbour?
Chamberlain and "peace in our time"?

Or your modern take, "..she'll be right, Jack"?

[Virago]

How did you conclude that from what Ed wrote? ...

Ed specifically raised the issue of conscientious objectors in his first post. When no-one took the bait he made another post, asking how people feel about it.

Refusal of military service is a key part of JW doctrine.

Ed is a master of his craft, and a very careful word-smith - he will of course be along soon to deny such insinuations about his motives, and to offer some insults in response. But his carefully disguised motives are quite clear.

I think that today of all days, it is not appropriate.

[mashman]

What is?
Isolationism, like the US before Pearl Harbour?
Chamberlain and "peace in our time"?

Or your modern take, "..she'll be right, Jack"?

My modern take? You are sorely deluded. I've been reading about the guys in the US returning from Iraq and Afghanistan being treated like shit by their govt. Nothing has changed irrespective of the World Wars that people have been through, other than the way the people are treated/remembered afterwards. War still rages on across the globe.

moron.

[Oscar]

My modern take? You are sorely deluded. I've been reading about the guys in the US returning from Iraq and Afghanistan being treated like shit by their govt. Nothing has changed irrespective of the World Wars that people have been through, other than the way the people are treated/remembered afterwards. War still rages on across the globe.

moron.

So you think that the way the US treats its soldiers should influence our Foriegn Policy?

If we look at two of the last conflicts we committed troops to, none of your idiotic factors were present.
We helped with stability and reconstruction in Timor Leste and with reconstruction in Afghanistan (we built schools and hospitals).
What has that to do with "...slaughter(ing) people to gain access to their resources for the privileged few."

Could you name one resource that we covet in Timor or Afghanistan?

The only thing moronic here is your infantile knee jerk political posturing.

[mashman]

So you think that the way the US treats its soldiers should influence our Foriegn Policy?

If we look at two of the last conflicts we committed troops to, none of your idiotic factors were present.
We helped with stability and reconstruction in Timor Leste and with reconstruction in Afghanistan (we built schools and hospitals).
What has that to do with "...slaughter(ing) people to gain access to their resources for the privileged few."

Could you name one resource that we covet in Timor or Afghanistan?

The only thing moronic here is your infantile knee jerk political posturing.

It should influence everyone's foreign policy.

And we lost soldiers too. You missed that bit out which speaks volumes about your pathetic grasp on the real world.

"We covet". As in NZ? Would NZ have gone to those wars without their allies?

It's not political moron.

[Oscar]

It should influence everyone's foreign policy.

And we lost soldiers too. You missed that bit out which speaks volumes about your pathetic grasp on the real world.

"We covet". As in NZ? Would NZ have gone to those wars without their allies?

It's not political moron.

Of course it's political, and if it's not political, it's economic.

How many of our Allies were in Timor?
What benefit did NZ accrue apart from helping a neighbour?

You're the sort that cheered Chamberlain.
"Peace in our time".

[Genestho]

All I know about war/ANZACs and the like, is many men from our country gave up their tomorrows, so many others could enjoy their today's, in the manner that they (the fallen) missed out on.
Respect.

Does it for me too.
Political aspects never take into account the human cost so, I feel it's upto family and community to remember and respect, not just on Anzac day but, on any given day.

With so little to inspire our young men amongst first world problem's, if they can draw inspiration, pride, empathy and respect for what these men did for their countries. I reckon it's a great thing for the future.

My 6 year old presented art to some old boys from the RSA in a packed school assembly, attended his first dawn parade this morning and we discussed Great Grandads (who both passed before his birth) stories, that they barely spoke of but luckily are journaled. Incredible to imagine today.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T.