ANZACs and war and stuff

[Edbear]

My Grandfather never talked about the war either. However he did talk to his Army mates and they would drink up a storm at every opportunity. My Grandparents house became a regular hangout for his war buddies and these drinking sessions were common place for my Aunts/Uncles growing up at the time. All my Aunts/Uncles know of the war from my Grandfather is what was overhead during these sessions.

Not talking about the War is more a military thing than a War thing. As a soldier it is hard to explain to non-military people about what you do in the Army - they just don't understand. It's like trying to explain your job in intricate detail to someone who just doesn't have a clue. Now try explaining your job during an actual War to that same person and you can understand why most soldiers don't even try. The only people you can really talk too are other military personel because they understand - you can tell a story and they will laugh whereas a non-military person wouldn't know how to react.

Now the whole going off to fight for your country debate that pops up every year. Hippies, consconscientious objectors, tree huggers are all mortal enemies of the serviceman but I see them as necessary evils, the flip side of the same coin to keep things in balance. If it weren't for these clueless closeminded cowards keeping us in check then we'd be no better off than some military dictatorship. I have no ill feelings against them (although being archnemeses', I exercise my right to refer to them using derrogatory terms whereever possible).

LOL! You're nothing if not tactful... My reason for being a CO is simply one of political neutrality. Yes I personally have an aversion to war and violence of any kind, justifiable or not, but being politically neutral, or even being a CO for any reason, does not necessarily mean one is a coward as you should realise, or close-minded for that matter. I think I also mentioned I'm not a pacifist who are non-violent regardless of provocation.

It is an uneasy balance of supporting the political ends of governments and/or defending one's family and friends. The stories coming back are frequently highlighting the change of view of those who went to war. Those who went believing and expecting one thing and being so disillusioned that they would never do it again, coming to hate or at least dismiss the authorities who sent them.

Personally, again as I can only speak for myself, the reason why someone does something is the key. If someone genuinely believes they are trying to do what is right, that is to be commended. Such one's are always willing to listen to the other's views and if necessary change their own. In the past, it was more blind obedience to authority than reasoned efforts, but today we are better educated and informed and need to base our decisions on our own study and research without the emotional baggage so relied upon by TPTB to incite their subects to follow them.

Governments still try to use emotional blackmail, for want of a better word, and national pride to promote support and to an extent this still works.

[Voltaire]

Peter Frazer went to prison in WW1 as a conscious objector as did other labour Party members.
He was PM during the war, his views on " Where England Goes We Go" must have changed over time.

[jonbuoy]

My Grandfather never talked about the war either. However he did talk to his Army mates and they would drink up a storm at every opportunity. My Grandparents house became a regular hangout for his war buddies and these drinking sessions were common place for my Aunts/Uncles growing up at the time. All my Aunts/Uncles know of the war from my Grandfather is what was overhead during these sessions.

Not talking about the War is more a military thing than a War thing. As a soldier it is hard to explain to non-military people about what you do in the Army - they just don't understand. It's like trying to explain your job in intricate detail to someone who just doesn't have a clue. Now try explaining your job during an actual War to that same person and you can understand why most soldiers don't even try. The only people you can really talk too are other military personel because they understand - you can tell a story and they will laugh whereas a non-military person wouldn't know how to react.

Now the whole going off to fight for your country debate that pops up every year. Hippies, consconscientious objectors, tree huggers are all mortal enemies of the serviceman but I see them as necessary evils, the flip side of the same coin to keep things in balance. If it weren't for these clueless closeminded cowards keeping us in check then we'd be no better off than some military dictatorship. I have no ill feelings against them (although being archnemeses', I exercise my right to refer to them using derrogatory terms whereever possible).

Would a soldier who refused to march Jews into the gas chambers be a coward too? How about a general that refused Hitlers order to invade Poland? A CO who refused to send his men over the top in WW1 to run into a German machine gun posts and certain death knowing it would make no difference to the War?

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

[Road kill]

My great grandmother was a child when Te Kooti was running amuck around Gisboure.
She had lots of interesting stories.

My Grand father served in both WW1-2.
My dads four older brothers all served during WW2 and he served in the home guard.

One of my cousins "Greg" served in Vietnam with NZSAS.

I tried to join the Army in 73 but they didn't need any cannon fodder right then so I went dairy farming instead.

War,,, "getting shot at",,, doesn't seem as attractive today as it did when I was younger.

[Edbear]

My great grandmother was a child when Te Kooti was running amuck around Gisboure.
She had lots of interesting stories.

My Grand father served in both WW1-2.
My dads four older brothers all served during WW2 and he served in the home guard.

One of my cousins "Greg" served in Vietnam with NZSAS.

I tried to join the Army in 73 but they didn't need any cannon fodder right then so I went dairy farming instead.

War,,, "getting shot at",,, doesn't seem as attractive today as it did when I was younger.

Yeah, cap-guns were okay but trading them for real guns with real bullets, kinda made me think it may be not such a good idea. Rabbits on the farm don't fire back, but armed opponents do, usually...

These days with the increasing loss of internal security we are more likely to be confronted in our own home than required to travel overseas to defend ourselves. So thinking about personal security is timely when the nations are actively avoiding international conflict as much as humanly possible.

[oldrider]

Peter Frazer went to prison in WW1 as a conscious objector as did other labour Party members.
He was PM during the war, his views on " Where England Goes We Go" must have changed over time.

You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_F..._politician%29

He was prime minister at the time that I first became consciously aware of the meaning of war and politics!

[_Shrek_]

You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_F..._politician%29

He was prime minister at the time that I first became consciously aware of the meaning of war and politics!

you must be realy old, does it hurt

[idb]

you must be realy old, does it hurt

You just wait...

[scumdog]

you must be realy old, does it hurt

Well, my knees certainly hurt - does that make me old???

[Laava]

Well, my knees certainly hurt - does that make me old???

Sing with me now...
Head, shoulders, knees and....floor floor floor floor

[FJRider]

Well, my knees certainly hurt - does that make me old???

You have a half decent excuse for being in pain. Being old isn't the reason for it though.

But I am glad I don't need my knee's done. The hip is a breeze by comparison ...

[Edbear]

You have a half decent excuse for being in pain. Being old isn't the reason for it though.

But I am glad I don't need my knee's done. The hip is a breeze by comparison ...

I'll put off both as long as possible.

[oldrider]

Lucky me, my hips and knees are OK but my body has to go!

[Akzle]

Thoughts?

troll lord!

Is the world becoming more averse to the rising violence and International tensions?

bahahahahhahahhahahaha.


no.

niggers love war. white niggers especially, and especially if they have some kind of vested interest, like money, drugs, arms, oil... whatever. war is a highly profitable enterprise.

The message coming across is that we need to remember and learn from our past and not to revisit it again. Not to see those fallen as falling in vain and to highlight the futility of war.

what fucking channel are you on? the message is much as it's always been, believe in the good christian god, don't question the government or their motives, accept that those who died "died for your freedoms" and so on. oh, and don't forget to buy your chinese made plastic poppy to put in one of NZs fabulous landfill facilities.

It has been noticeable in questionnaires over recent years that more and more people would register as Conscientious Objectors if called up for service and this crosses all areas of society, not just your traditional pacifists.

It seems to be part of the rise of the "common people" to not be ruled by TPTB and simply told what to do.

to register as anything, you're submitting to the authority you register to, that they have the authority to require you to register. anyone who registers as anything will not benefit from the transaction.

the "rise of the common people" will be hilarious and futile. common people suck at shit. that's why the government exists. that's why the S&S bill got slammed through without one protest, not even a bit of flag waving.

Conversely, there is still a keen interest in joining or otherwise supporting the armed forces for the vocational training and discipline they provide and for national pride.

i can appreciate certain aspects of it (discipline, pride, skill, camaraderie, fitness etc) , but they can be delivered via other means. i cannot get my head around submitting to fight someone elses war, especially when that someone is the government.

Do you think ANZAC Day is still relevant, do you support it and what are your attitudes to war today?

i'm against war in all forms at all times between all peoples.

anzac day is relevant in that we should remember the fallen, but to truly honor them fallen, we should actually change how we go about shit, rather than fighting for it like fucking kindergarten kids, with m16s. we should question any authority that tells us to run headlong into shrapnel and/or minefields...

[oldrider]

anzac day is relevant in that we should remember the fallen, but to truly honor them fallen, we should actually change how we go about shit, rather than fighting for it like fucking kindergarten kids, with m16s. we should question any authority that tells us to run headlong into shrapnel and/or minefields...[/COLOR]

True! Akzle is quite right, the way we "remember" can really do with a make over IMHO!

How many versions of ANZAC are there for a start?

ANZAC The Australian version.

ANZAC The New Zealand version.

ANZ.................................................. .......AC The Turkish version.

Fucking useless colonial canon fodder AC .................................................. ..................... The British version.

Brotherhood? Yeah right, only when it suits and after the day is over we all go back to carrying on exactly the way we did before any of their stupid wars and "willing" to do it all again!

How fucking stupid is that!!!!!