My first poll for the NZ public

[scumdog]

But the market decides what their effort is valued at, not them. Again, not exactly something I would call fair..

So...if I make little dolls from used bottle tops and decide they are worth $200 each I should expect to get that $200 - and be crushed when 'the market' decides they are worth $2???

(Thought I'd throw that in there to break the Mashman-Ocean1-Mashman rythm - oh, and occasional gwigs)

[Oscar]

But the market decides what their effort is valued at, not them. Again, not exactly something I would call fair.

So who decides what their effort is worth?
A Central Committee?

[Oscar]

Dickhead. What does the G stand for in GFC? I suggest you start there.

So the fact that a Russian Oligarch stashed his money in Bermuda has a direct effect on the decision of a Mangere yoof not to bother with a job?
Also what has the GFC (which occurred five years ago BTW) got to do with dole bludgers?

Oh, yeah in Mushman's world, it's true coz you say it's true...

Who's the dickhead again?

[Oscar]

So...if I make little dolls from used bottle tops and decide they are worth $200 each I should expect to get that $200 - and be crushed when 'the market' decides they are worth $2???

(Thought I'd throw that in there to break the Mashman-Ocean1-Mashman rythm - oh, and occasional gwigs)

It is interesting that the idjut owns an Aprilia.
Who decided what that was worth?
Not worth the new price IMHO, bu the market soon corrects that with second hand ones...they drop like stones.
I guess ownership of second rate Italian motorcycles is not a good look for a financial and economic guru

[scumdog]

It is interesting that the idjut owns an Aprilia.
Who decided what that was worth?
Not worth the new price IMHO, bu the market soon corrects that with second hand ones...they drop like stones.
I guess ownership of second rate Italian motorcycles is not a good look for a financial and economic guru

It can't do fuckall km with him riding it - unless his key-board is mounted on the tank

[Oscar]

It can't do fuckall km with him riding it - unless his key-board is mounted on the tank

The computer is in the rec room - he uses it after he gets his meds...

[mashman]

So...if I make little dolls from used bottle tops and decide they are worth $200 each I should expect to get that $200 - and be crushed when 'the market' decides they are worth $2???

(Thought I'd throw that in there to break the Mashman-Ocean1-Mashman rythm - oh, and occasional gwigs)

... call it art and you'll get your $200

So who decides what their effort is worth?
A Central Committee?

All effort is worth the same. As mentioned earlier, no man is an island and we require the services of those who are currently valued as $1 as much we do the services of those who are valued at $1 million.
There is no value.

So the fact that a Russian Oligarch stashed his money in Bermuda has a direct effect on the decision of a Mangere yoof not to bother with a job?
Also what has the GFC (which occurred five years ago BTW) got to do with dole bludgers?

Oh, yeah in Mushman's world, it's true coz you say it's true...

Who's the dickhead again?

He may well do.
5 years ago? still not happening? The bludgers are probably sweet as, albeit they're getting kicked a little harder in the name of austerity and a sorting out of the country's finances. That and now we have a few thousand more on the dole.

What's true?

You. I thought I made that clear?

It is interesting that the idjut owns an Aprilia.
Who decided what that was worth?
Not worth the new price IMHO, bu the market soon corrects that with second hand ones...they drop like stones.
I guess ownership of second rate Italian motorcycles is not a good look for a financial and economic guru

Why is that interesting? But you are correct, I do "own" it, paid for in cash.
The guys who are selling it.
I didn't buy it as an investment.
heh... image isn't everything.

It can't do fuckall km with him riding it - unless his key-board is mounted on the tank

It does the work run and unfortunately that's about it. Family commitments take the rest of my time, that and I ain't overly convinced that the charging system is working properly... which reminds me, I need to get in touch with the importer to see if I can get the same deal as the Europeans in regards to the new rotor they've provided to solve the burning stator issue. Mind you, I get to finish works at 3 these days and as I'm paying the sitter a decent hourly rate, the odd long way home is doable with minimal traffic getting in my way.

[mashman]

The computer is in the rec room - he uses it after he gets his meds...

I wish the meds I prefer to take were legal. But too many ignorant fuckwits need to keep the prison population up whilst wasting tax payer funding.

[Ocean1]

So it has nothing to do with hard work then and all to do with what value the market puts on your effort (which is something we cleared up eons ago). In other words the market can't produce enough well paid jobs because people just simply wouldn't buy the goods and services at just any price... and then you decide that those who are losers or lazy are at fault based on the value that they they produce, where in reality it's the market and its valuation of their effort that is the issue. Hardly a fair assessment.

I never suggested anyone was lazy. And if you think you can produce anything of value without hard work… nevermind, perfectly consistent with the rest of your ideas.

It is absolutely the right of those who earned their money to decide whether it’s worth spending on any given product. And yes that affects how much the product’s supplier, (including it’s employees) gets paid.

And yes that’s perfectly fair.

If you don’t like it then a change in career is probably a good idea.

Your choice.

How can the employees earn more than the business? It's the business that "earns" the money and then it pays its bills to the "contractors" who made that revenue generation possible. Fair would be a floating rate wage and a business operating as a cooperative. Anything other than that is unfair.

Apparently quite easily. Nationally total personal income is at least an order of magnitude greater than total company profits.

Revenue comes from customers, not contractors.

In fact I operated a very similar arrangement for years, basic wage plus a share of profits. Works OK until you get a bad month or two, then while you’re busy re-mortgaging the house your “floating rate” employees are taking the gains from the good times and fucking off. So in my experience it’s only fair when employees firstly produce more than they cost to employ and secondly if they stump up with some capital to contribute so they’re sharing the risks as well.

[Oscar]

All effort is worth the same. As mentioned earlier, no man is an island and we require the services of those who are currently valued as $1 as much we do the services of those who are valued at $1 million.
There is no value.

So where's the incentive to learn a trade, or become better educated?
Also "we require"?
Is that your role as Commissar?
What do you get paid for your job on the Central Committee, Comrade идиот?

[bogan]

All effort is worth the same. As mentioned earlier, no man is an island and we require the services of those who are currently valued as $1 as much we do the services of those who are valued at $1 million.
There is no value.

No we don't, consider a heart surgeon compared to a hooker.

[Oscar]

No we don't, consider a heart surgeon compared to a hooker.

I'd want both to have a steady hand...

[Ocean1]

:I need to get in touch with the importer to see if I can get the same deal as the Europeans in regards to the new rotor they've provided to solve the burning stator issue.

But, they're the producer. How dare you presume to attempt to dictate terms of trade with a producer!

[Ocean1]

I'd want both to have a steady hand...

... and a clean bill of health.

[Oscar]

But, they're the producer. How dare you presume to attempt to dictate terms of trade with a producer!

He's the Commissar - first amongst equals.
He must be obeyed...